Claim: "God answers prayer" - a personal lightbulb moment
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03-06-2015, 08:26 AM
RE: Claim: "God answers prayer" - a personal lightbulb moment
(03-06-2015 08:22 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  ...
If you go around calling yourself "God's Chosen People" -- it's a fair bet that somebody's going to come along and step on your dick, just for the hell of it...

Would you like me to move that comment to the Offensive Jokes thread?

Dodgy

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03-06-2015, 08:45 AM
RE: Claim: "God answers prayer" - a personal lightbulb moment
[Image: mustardseed.jpg]

When I was a young teen, a little girl I occasionally babysat and took care of in the church nursery (the preacher's youngest daughter) drowned in her parents' swimming pool. So this was part of my prayer - "Lord, You raised Lazarus from the dead, Your Son after three days. You created the universe. Breathe life into this little girl. I'm begging." All things have a purpose. So what was God's purpose in allowing this precious little girl to die?

The mom was asleep and the dad was playing the piano. One of the older kids left the back door open. It was an accident.


This was a lightbulb moment for me. It didn't matter how fervently I prayed for something, how much faith I had. Even as a Christian, I always felt like prayer was pointless after that - I just stuck to thank yous - 'cause miracles weren't going to happen.

"If there's a single thing that life teaches us, it's that wishing doesn't make it so." - Lev Grossman
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03-06-2015, 09:15 AM
RE: Claim: "God answers prayer" - a personal lightbulb moment
I was always concerned about people praying to prevent a disaster or to save a life etc.

If your praying to god to avert a disaster it can only mean 2 things:

A) He wasn't aware of it happening
B) Your indirectly stating that he wouldn't do anything about it if you didn't pray.


That's not an impressive god.
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03-06-2015, 09:23 AM
RE: Claim: "God answers prayer" - a personal lightbulb moment
(03-06-2015 07:19 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  ... across America this week 10 million lottery tickets were purchased, and 70% of those people are religious and said a fervent prayer "God please let me win the lottery." A week later the winner is announced and Gasp it happens to be one of the 7 million religious people who bought a ticket. To THAT person, god has answered their prayer...you will never be able to convince them otherwise. They will tell their story forever..."I prayed to god to let me win and I DID!...god is great!..it was a miracle, god blessed me!"

The frightening statistic is that about a third of the population (per a poll in Canada) is COUNTING on winning a lottery as their retirement fund - some significant portion of that third of course confident that god will not let them down.

One wonders how mankind ever climbed out of the dark ages - but when you consider where civilization might be had we invested in figuring nature out instead of designing ever more efficient ways to blow ourselves up perhaps we haven't actually escaped the dark ages after all.
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03-06-2015, 09:26 AM
RE: Claim: "God answers prayer" - a personal lightbulb moment
(03-06-2015 09:15 AM)TheStraightener Wrote:  I was always concerned about people praying to prevent a disaster or to save a life etc.

If your praying to god to avert a disaster it can only mean 2 things:

A) He wasn't aware of it happening
B) Your indirectly stating that he wouldn't do anything about it if you didn't pray.

That's not an impressive god.

Good points.

Regarding your point A: "God, the normal forces of nature are creating a tsunami. Please supernaturally intervene in a way that makes the tsunami just dissipate, but also in a way that would be scientifically understandable that could be explained by the forces of nature since that's how you operate...everything that happens looks exactly as if you didn't exist and that forces of nature control everything."

Regarding your point B: "God, WTF?! Stop it! No, please God don't kill all those men, women and children, please. Don't you love people created in your image?"
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03-06-2015, 10:01 AM (This post was last modified: 03-06-2015 10:24 AM by Rahn127.)
RE: Claim: "God answers prayer" - a personal lightbulb moment
If someone believes that everything that happens according to god's plan, then prayer is asking god to change his plan. You're asking a god to change things so it will be better for you or others. If only they would realize that he doesn't care about your best interest. He's only concerned with his plan, like a serial killer.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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03-06-2015, 10:38 AM
RE: Claim: "God answers prayer" - a personal lightbulb moment
Here are some takeaways that I have regarding prayer:

1.) I am presupposing god's existence AND the fact that it answers prayers...so let's assume I am praying for my car to sell quickly so I can pay off some bills that would have been payed off by the money I sent to Pat Robinson for the anointing oil that would bless my house. god answers my prayer with a yes and my car sells quickly. Well that implies that god would have interfered with someone's free will to make this happen. Do we have free will or not? (according to the christian). If we do and god is interfering with this to answer prayers then why not just interfere to cause everyone to believe?

2.) There is certainly something very strange about the idea of god changing its mind. If god is omniscient, every decision that it makes is done in light of all of the facts; there cannot arise any new information that god failed to take into account that might cause it to revise the decision. god, then, should never change its mind.
This means that telling said god of our needs and asking to meet them is a waste of time; god is fully aware both of our needs and of our desires, and will have taken them into account in making the original decision. Whatever decision made, whether it is in our favor or not, we should not question; our judgement as to what god should do will be inferior.

It therefore seems that Christians should not pray prayers of petition. Prayers of worship and adoration are understandable, of course, Laughat but requests for divine intervention seem to be futile; whatever god is going to do will be done. god did say when asked who it was, "I am that I am" or in other words it's none of your bid-ness...which is pretty much how prayer works, nonyah damn bidness people! Of course a non-theists interpretation of this is, yah uhh NO you don't exist. No

**Crickets** -- God
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03-06-2015, 11:14 AM
RE: Claim: "God answers prayer" - a personal lightbulb moment
I haven't read the whole thread so if this has been posted already forgive me. This video is probably the best 8 minutes and 47 seconds on the subject of prayer. It gets lots of theists very angry, tee hee.





PS. You know us West Coast people get up in the morning and many of the threads are already pages long 'cause you guys have a three hour jump on us left coast people. I sometimes don't read them all the way through. Blush

Shakespeare Insult 13 – Henry IV Part 1
“That trunk of humours, that bolting-hutch of beastliness, that swollen parcel of dropsies, that huge bombard of sack, that stuffed cloak-bag of guts, that reverend vice, that grey Iniquity, that father ruffian, that vanity in years?”
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03-06-2015, 11:29 AM
RE: Claim: "God answers prayer" - a personal lightbulb moment
(03-06-2015 11:14 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  I haven't read the whole thread so if this has been posted already forgive me. This video is probably the best 8 minutes and 47 seconds on the subject of prayer. It gets lots of theists very angry, tee hee.





PS. You know us West Coast people get up in the morning and many of the threads are already pages long 'cause you guys have a three hour jump on us left coast people. I sometimes don't read them all the way through. Blush

dancefortwo, that's a great video! Haha, I haven't seen it before -- thanks for sharing.
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03-06-2015, 03:40 PM
RE: Claim: "God answers prayer" - a personal lightbulb moment
Oh the prayer aspect! Just another game of "I win" for believers.

When put on the spot about specific prayers they say that's not how it works and that prayer is for strength, guidance, etc. But when something miraculous happens by chance they pipe up and give credit to God for answering prayer.
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