Claims of seeing God/ Jesus/ Heaven
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07-04-2013, 07:54 PM
RE: Claims of seeing God/ Jesus/ Heaven
(07-04-2013 07:49 PM)TheJCexperience Wrote:  
(07-04-2013 07:11 PM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  Welcome to the forum, TJCE!

Can provide any citations to your claims?

Thanks! and yes, I am a witness to the Truth. My dad was in car accident a while back. Died 3 times on the way to the hospital (documented), he was brought back, by medical staf(documented) f..however all the doctors that worked on him..at least 5, all due to life threatening injuries...all agreed my dad should have died..no medical anything that could have saved him..yet he survived..he was messed up REALLY bad, wasnt suppose to walk again or see out of one of his eyes. Tho he doesnt look like he used to, the facts are the drs documented there was no reason for him to have survived..he was saved we know thru faith that God intervened...my dad was in ICU for 3 months..he wasnt able to say" I'll heal"myself" he wasnt awake 95% of the time. drs admitted there was nothing they could do but watch and wait. everyday the drs would come out and say, he's alive right now..thats all we can say....everyday that went on..but we had faith n a God we could not see and spiritually we believe he was touched, healed. my dad says that himself when he looks at the pics and sees his medical records.

I appreciate the welcome and just want to say..Im NOT here to bash anyone..forums are meant to discuss things and I like to discuss, as I said before, I research things and enjoy finding things out and learning and trying to see the procress of how others thing as well. JCiL

Now to go with that, scientific and historical citations would be greatly appreciated for both of your posts on this thread. Thumbsup

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07-04-2013, 08:02 PM
RE: Claims of seeing God/ Jesus/ Heaven
(07-04-2013 07:06 PM)TheJCexperience Wrote:  
(23-02-2012 03:27 PM)Randi.Renee Wrote:  Do you beileve that people have seen God/ Jesus?

From what I have heard/seen. Most of these claims have been made from people that have been in traumatic situations (surgery, death bed, horrific car wreck, on heavy medication in the hospital, ect...).

I was raised Christian. Went to Christian school ect...

I had a traumatic life changing accident when I was 13. I was in cheerleading accident. I broke my C5 ( 5th vertebrea in my neck), leaving me with a spinal cord injury. Quadraplegia. After surgery, I was in the Trauma Unit for 6 weeks. At one point, I could hear people talking in my hospital room, but could not see them. I rose above my own body. It felt like I was floating around the room. I thought I had died. Never saw a "bright light" or heard God, but I really believed I died and had rose from my body. I thought maybe God gave me a second chance to live my life.

As I have goten older, I have made an amazing recovery. I can now feel everything on my body. I can walk with the use of a cane. Dr's thought I would be dependant the rest of my life.

My point is... I am now an Atheist. Looking back on my hospital experience, I feel that I was wanting God to help me so bad, that (with being sedated) I imagined this. I do not think it even happened. Being an Atheist, I can see where my mind made it up.
Christian's (with similar experiences to mine) believe in God, therefore the "know" it was real. Especially if they had an experience (imagined) that God was present.

We have heard "I died and saw God" or "I died and went Heaven" or even "I went the doors/gates of Hell, but Jesus saved me and gave me a second chance."

I think that most of these people are telling their story (what they imagined) ,but also repeating what others have described before. This makes it believeable because others have "seen/been there" too. Ex: " I saw the bright ligt" or the descrption of God, Jesus or Heaven.

I am wondering what people think of these claims. If you have had an experience similar at all, please share it.
If not, please comment with your thoughts.

***********************************************************
I'd like to tell you if youre still out there, that yes, having an experience like that can change you. These experiences happen to people and they ARE real. I, too, had an experience when, ironically, I was 13. I had not been in any accident. Nothing special or horrific had happened to me...and I wasnt on any medication. So I hope that my story will help you to realize that God is real and LOVES you VERY much!

As I said I was only 13. My family, though Christian, didnt go to church very often, so I had to maintain my faith as a child the best I could. My vision was very simple. I had laid down to go to bed one night, starting to doze off, then all of a sudden...there He was....in full body...shining in a light I had never seen before...super bright, brilliant and yet it did not hurt my eyes. Because of the brilliance that surrounded Him, I could not see His face, but I saw the scars on His hands and feet. When I first saw Him, my first thought was..."it's my time to die", I had been so filled with fear that my body tightened up and I started to cry. I didnt want to die. As He stood there in all His glory, His arms were reached out, seeming to give comfort and the love that poured out of His being was SO profound. If I wasnt dieing, then I wondered why would He show Himself to me..a simple person, still finding my way in my faith, seemingly nothing special. I know He spoke to me, but I cant tell you what He said. I saw Him only for a short time and then He was gone. The additional interesting part is, some might say..."oh there was a light coming thru your window or you were just dreaming" the fact is I was WIDE awake...I couldnt go to sleep the whole night, nor the night after. And my room had NO windows, my room was pitch dark. Now others may say you were just thinking about pictures you have seen in the past....again, no, this was not the case.. the fact is I had never seen a picture of Jesus like that with such brililance or how He was standing and I have never seen a picture, video or movie like it since either. One the i will tell you, I LOOKED. I wanted to know that i didnt just imagine what I saw. I have never found anything that looked the way He did that night.
Jesus is real....and He is full of love and that is all He wants to do, is love you, He accepts you for who you are, thats why he died on the cross for you, me and everyone here in this forum.
Now obiviously there are people here who do not believe. It is a choice. But let me put this out there in facts.....if you look into history..Roman history, israeli history...you will find true facts that Jesus DID walk this earth, you will find true facts that the Romans did beat Him to a pulp, you will find that the Romans were MASTERS at beating and torturing people. Yes the jews agree that Jesus was a real man, by WHY would they try SO hard to disclaim that He is God? I say to you, dont take my word for it...do your own research, look up the FACTS that are documented. For me Im a very factual person, very logical, love science and I do my research on things that I dont understand and I DO believe Jesus is the Christ.
Think on this also....you cant see "a god" right? ok fair enough....can you feel him? some will say yes, some will say no....think about this....prove to me there is air...show it to me...let me feel it...can you? the signs are all around us that it exists thru seeing the trees blow around, smelling the scent of flowers as it blows thru them and picks up the scent to carry it to your nose....but you still...cant...SEE..it., you go by "faith" that its there.
God, Jesus is there, if you look you will see the signs showing that it is so. I say all these things out of love, because I am filled with love, the love of Jesus Christ, the blood of Jesus has washed me clean so that I can live with Him, thru Him in love. Im so saddened when I see other "Christians" try to beat down a non-believer...let me just tell you, a TRUE believer, will NEVER beat you down because of how you think or believe or are questioning things in your life. I do believe tho that God has a purpose for you and that is the reason you have gone thru what you have gone thru...you have received a true miracle. Just remember God DOES love you and sees you and knows about everything you have and are going thru and He will meet you where you are. He wants you to feel His love for you. He is Very real.



God is NOT real.

See, I can say things like "god is real" or "god is not real" without giving proof as well.

Your "vision" of Jebus when you were 13 is hardly proof.
You said it yourself, you were tired as fuck.
When I go to sleep at night I can see myself clear as day rolling around in a giant pile of money, doesn't mean I have a giant pile of money.
Plus, you were 13, the brain is already doing stupid things at the time. And who the fuck remembers anything from when they were 13 anyway? People barely remember a muggers face a couple days after witnessing it.
No, it sounds like you WANT to believe you saw Jesus. Doesn't mean you actually saw Jesus.

Also, side note, if Jebus was real (which he's not), why are you so special that he came to you? What have you done with your life to warrant a visit from Jebus?
Think about that when you're on your deathbed. Maybe you'll then finally reconsidering actually seeing Jebus.

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07-04-2013, 08:06 PM
RE: Claims of seeing God/ Jesus/ Heaven
(07-04-2013 07:06 PM)TheJCexperience Wrote:  starting to doze off, then all of a sudden...there He was....in full body...shining in a light I had never seen before.

What you experienced was likely a hypnogogic hallucination.

There has been a great deal of study and documentation of these phenomena.

See this.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-04-2013, 08:10 PM
RE: Claims of seeing God/ Jesus/ Heaven
(07-04-2013 07:49 PM)TheJCexperience Wrote:  Thanks! and yes, I am a witness to the Truth. My dad was in car accident a while back...

...forums are meant to discuss things and I like to discuss, as I said before, I research things and enjoy finding things out and learning and trying to see the procress of how others thing as well. JCiL

I'm happy for you that your father recovered.

Now to the nitty gritty. From your posts I gather that you are a theist, you believe in a personal God that intervenes in people's lives. And if that's what you believe I'm curious to know what kind of story you tell yourself to justify God's lapse of attention, or indifference, or willful malice, or punishment for the car crash in the first place? Seems to me like if He actually cared about your dad He would have prevented the whole thing BEFORE it happened don't you think? I'm all ears.

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07-04-2013, 08:16 PM
RE: Claims of seeing God/ Jesus/ Heaven
People of other religious faiths see their deities as well. See, for instance, the Hindu concept of Darshan. This negates "personal experiences" as evidence for the existence of any one god. They can't all exist.
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07-04-2013, 08:22 PM
RE: Claims of seeing God/ Jesus/ Heaven
(07-04-2013 07:49 PM)TheJCexperience Wrote:  
(07-04-2013 07:11 PM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  Welcome to the forum, TJCE!

Can provide any citations to your claims?

Thanks! and yes, I am a witness to the Truth. My dad was in car accident a while back. Died 3 times on the way to the hospital (documented), he was brought back, by medical staf(documented) f..however all the doctors that worked on him..at least 5, all due to life threatening injuries...all agreed my dad should have died..no medical anything that could have saved him..yet he survived..he was messed up REALLY bad, wasnt suppose to walk again or see out of one of his eyes. Tho he doesnt look like he used to, the facts are the drs documented there was no reason for him to have survived..he was saved we know thru faith that God intervened...my dad was in ICU for 3 months..he wasnt able to say" I'll heal"myself" he wasnt awake 95% of the time. drs admitted there was nothing they could do but watch and wait. everyday the drs would come out and say, he's alive right now..thats all we can say....everyday that went on..but we had faith n a God we could not see and spiritually we believe he was touched, healed. my dad says that himself when he looks at the pics and sees his medical records.

I appreciate the welcome and just want to say..Im NOT here to bash anyone..forums are meant to discuss things and I like to discuss, as I said before, I research things and enjoy finding things out and learning and trying to see the procress of how others thing as well. JCiL

Feel free to bash away.

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07-04-2013, 09:36 PM
RE: Claims of seeing God/ Jesus/ Heaven
(07-04-2013 08:02 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(07-04-2013 07:06 PM)TheJCexperience Wrote:  ***********************************************************
I'd like to tell you if youre still out there, that yes, having an experience like that can change you. These experiences happen to people and they ARE real. I, too, had an experience when, ironically, I was 13. I had not been in any accident. Nothing special or horrific had happened to me...and I wasnt on any medication. So I hope that my story will help you to realize that God is real and LOVES you VERY much!

As I said I was only 13. My family, though Christian, didnt go to church very often, so I had to maintain my faith as a child the best I could. My vision was very simple. I had laid down to go to bed one night, starting to doze off, then all of a sudden...there He was....in full body...shining in a light I had never seen before...super bright, brilliant and yet it did not hurt my eyes. Because of the brilliance that surrounded Him, I could not see His face, but I saw the scars on His hands and feet. When I first saw Him, my first thought was..."it's my time to die", I had been so filled with fear that my body tightened up and I started to cry. I didnt want to die. As He stood there in all His glory, His arms were reached out, seeming to give comfort and the love that poured out of His being was SO profound. If I wasnt dieing, then I wondered why would He show Himself to me..a simple person, still finding my way in my faith, seemingly nothing special. I know He spoke to me, but I cant tell you what He said. I saw Him only for a short time and then He was gone. The additional interesting part is, some might say..."oh there was a light coming thru your window or you were just dreaming" the fact is I was WIDE awake...I couldnt go to sleep the whole night, nor the night after. And my room had NO windows, my room was pitch dark. Now others may say you were just thinking about pictures you have seen in the past....again, no, this was not the case.. the fact is I had never seen a picture of Jesus like that with such brililance or how He was standing and I have never seen a picture, video or movie like it since either. One the i will tell you, I LOOKED. I wanted to know that i didnt just imagine what I saw. I have never found anything that looked the way He did that night.
Jesus is real....and He is full of love and that is all He wants to do, is love you, He accepts you for who you are, thats why he died on the cross for you, me and everyone here in this forum.
Now obiviously there are people here who do not believe. It is a choice. But let me put this out there in facts.....if you look into history..Roman history, israeli history...you will find true facts that Jesus DID walk this earth, you will find true facts that the Romans did beat Him to a pulp, you will find that the Romans were MASTERS at beating and torturing people. Yes the jews agree that Jesus was a real man, by WHY would they try SO hard to disclaim that He is God? I say to you, dont take my word for it...do your own research, look up the FACTS that are documented. For me Im a very factual person, very logical, love science and I do my research on things that I dont understand and I DO believe Jesus is the Christ.
Think on this also....you cant see "a god" right? ok fair enough....can you feel him? some will say yes, some will say no....think about this....prove to me there is air...show it to me...let me feel it...can you? the signs are all around us that it exists thru seeing the trees blow around, smelling the scent of flowers as it blows thru them and picks up the scent to carry it to your nose....but you still...cant...SEE..it., you go by "faith" that its there.
God, Jesus is there, if you look you will see the signs showing that it is so. I say all these things out of love, because I am filled with love, the love of Jesus Christ, the blood of Jesus has washed me clean so that I can live with Him, thru Him in love. Im so saddened when I see other "Christians" try to beat down a non-believer...let me just tell you, a TRUE believer, will NEVER beat you down because of how you think or believe or are questioning things in your life. I do believe tho that God has a purpose for you and that is the reason you have gone thru what you have gone thru...you have received a true miracle. Just remember God DOES love you and sees you and knows about everything you have and are going thru and He will meet you where you are. He wants you to feel His love for you. He is Very real.



God is NOT real.

See, I can say things like "god is real" or "god is not real" without giving proof as well.

Your "vision" of Jebus when you were 13 is hardly proof.
You said it yourself, you were tired as fuck.
When I go to sleep at night I can see myself clear as day rolling around in a giant pile of money, doesn't mean I have a giant pile of money.
Plus, you were 13, the brain is already doing stupid things at the time. And who the fuck remembers anything from when they were 13 anyway? People barely remember a muggers face a couple days after witnessing it.
No, it sounds like you WANT to believe you saw Jesus. Doesn't mean you actually saw Jesus.

Also, side note, if Jebus was real (which he's not), why are you so special that he came to you? What have you done with your life to warrant a visit from Jebus?
Think about that when you're on your deathbed. Maybe you'll then finally reconsidering actually seeing Jebus.

God is real and on this we will not agree and thats ok.
I didnt not phrase my tiredness as you did, I only said I went to bed. Tho I did doze. I did not sleep, therefore, no hallucinations. True we dont always remember everything when we are younger, however, all of us do have memories of things that affected us in some way whether we want to remember or not. This is a memory that has stayed with me. No i dont have a "picture" to prove. even if I did, ppl would say that it was faked, therefore you wouldnt believe me if i did show you "proof". True?? Can we agree on that? There are some things in life that just dont have direct answers, doesnt mean that they didnt happen or couldnt happen or be real. and as a I said, i researched to see if maybe for some reason I did dream something based on a picture, but again, He was like nothing I had ever seen and Im not THAT good at creating something out of thin air.
What had I done with my life that warranted a visit from Jesus? nothing. thats the wonderful thing about God...He doesnt look at our works to decide if we are "good enough" to see Him....He chooses...and I am honored that I got to be one of those people He has chosen. Usually the age of 13 in MANY cultures represents the "coming of age" for a child. Israeli children are considered coming of age at 13...it marks a new beginning to their life toward adulthood, so why not age 13?
In the spiritual aspect I do absolutely want to see Jesus and if I wanted to have that experience again, not up to me..

Now on my deathbed....Id rather believe in an afterlife where i can see my loved ones than believe in nothing....and if Im wrong? that there is nothing after this life...what I have lost at that point except the breath from body. BUT if Im right......then I KNOW i am going to have an abundant afterlife with my God. and i choose the afterlife. I choose a God that loves me enough to think of me whos had done nothing at the age of 13 to still show His magnifigance to me. Maybe He did it just for this reason right here....to talk with you, to let you know He sees you (all of you) and cares for you whether you believe or not. That He sees you as being worth be reached out to, to talk with. There is no afterlife because of what we do, but because of believing by faith that Jesus did live and is the Son of God and did die asking nothing in return but to believe in Him. JCiL
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07-04-2013, 09:39 PM
RE: Claims of seeing God/ Jesus/ Heaven
(07-04-2013 09:36 PM)TheJCexperience Wrote:  
(07-04-2013 08:02 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  God is NOT real.

See, I can say things like "god is real" or "god is not real" without giving proof as well.

Your "vision" of Jebus when you were 13 is hardly proof.
You said it yourself, you were tired as fuck.
When I go to sleep at night I can see myself clear as day rolling around in a giant pile of money, doesn't mean I have a giant pile of money.
Plus, you were 13, the brain is already doing stupid things at the time. And who the fuck remembers anything from when they were 13 anyway? People barely remember a muggers face a couple days after witnessing it.
No, it sounds like you WANT to believe you saw Jesus. Doesn't mean you actually saw Jesus.

Also, side note, if Jebus was real (which he's not), why are you so special that he came to you? What have you done with your life to warrant a visit from Jebus?
Think about that when you're on your deathbed. Maybe you'll then finally reconsidering actually seeing Jebus.

God is real and on this we will not agree and thats ok.
I didnt not phrase my tiredness as you did, I only said I went to bed. Tho I did doze. I did not sleep, therefore, no hallucinations. True we dont always remember everything when we are younger, however, all of us do have memories of things that affected us in some way whether we want to remember or not. This is a memory that has stayed with me. No i dont have a "picture" to prove. even if I did, ppl would say that it was faked, therefore you wouldnt believe me if i did show you "proof". True?? Can we agree on that? There are some things in life that just dont have direct answers, doesnt mean that they didnt happen or couldnt happen or be real. and as a I said, i researched to see if maybe for some reason I did dream something based on a picture, but again, He was like nothing I had ever seen and Im not THAT good at creating something out of thin air.
What had I done with my life that warranted a visit from Jesus? nothing. thats the wonderful thing about God...He doesnt look at our works to decide if we are "good enough" to see Him....He chooses...and I am honored that I got to be one of those people He has chosen. Usually the age of 13 in MANY cultures represents the "coming of age" for a child. Israeli children are considered coming of age at 13...it marks a new beginning to their life toward adulthood, so why not age 13?
In the spiritual aspect I do absolutely want to see Jesus and if I wanted to have that experience again, not up to me..

Now on my deathbed....Id rather believe in an afterlife where i can see my loved ones than believe in nothing....and if Im wrong? that there is nothing after this life...what I have lost at that point except the breath from body. BUT if Im right......then I KNOW i am going to have an abundant afterlife with my God. and i choose the afterlife. I choose a God that loves me enough to think of me whos had done nothing at the age of 13 to still show His magnifigance to me. Maybe He did it just for this reason right here....to talk with you, to let you know He sees you (all of you) and cares for you whether you believe or not. That He sees you as being worth be reached out to, to talk with. There is no afterlife because of what we do, but because of believing by faith that Jesus did live and is the Son of God and did die asking nothing in return but to believe in Him. JCiL

Pascal's Wager is the name they use to describe the mention of your deathbed scenario.

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07-04-2013, 09:44 PM
RE: Claims of seeing God/ Jesus/ Heaven
(07-04-2013 09:36 PM)TheJCexperience Wrote:  
(07-04-2013 08:02 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  God is NOT real.

See, I can say things like "god is real" or "god is not real" without giving proof as well.

Your "vision" of Jebus when you were 13 is hardly proof.
You said it yourself, you were tired as fuck.
When I go to sleep at night I can see myself clear as day rolling around in a giant pile of money, doesn't mean I have a giant pile of money.
Plus, you were 13, the brain is already doing stupid things at the time. And who the fuck remembers anything from when they were 13 anyway? People barely remember a muggers face a couple days after witnessing it.
No, it sounds like you WANT to believe you saw Jesus. Doesn't mean you actually saw Jesus.

Also, side note, if Jebus was real (which he's not), why are you so special that he came to you? What have you done with your life to warrant a visit from Jebus?
Think about that when you're on your deathbed. Maybe you'll then finally reconsidering actually seeing Jebus.

God is real and on this we will not agree and thats ok.
I didnt not phrase my tiredness as you did, I only said I went to bed. Tho I did doze. I did not sleep, therefore, no hallucinations. True we dont always remember everything when we are younger, however, all of us do have memories of things that affected us in some way whether we want to remember or not. This is a memory that has stayed with me. No i dont have a "picture" to prove. even if I did, ppl would say that it was faked, therefore you wouldnt believe me if i did show you "proof". True?? Can we agree on that? There are some things in life that just dont have direct answers, doesnt mean that they didnt happen or couldnt happen or be real. and as a I said, i researched to see if maybe for some reason I did dream something based on a picture, but again, He was like nothing I had ever seen and Im not THAT good at creating something out of thin air.
What had I done with my life that warranted a visit from Jesus? nothing. thats the wonderful thing about God...He doesnt look at our works to decide if we are "good enough" to see Him....He chooses...and I am honored that I got to be one of those people He has chosen. Usually the age of 13 in MANY cultures represents the "coming of age" for a child. Israeli children are considered coming of age at 13...it marks a new beginning to their life toward adulthood, so why not age 13?
In the spiritual aspect I do absolutely want to see Jesus and if I wanted to have that experience again, not up to me..

Now on my deathbed....Id rather believe in an afterlife where i can see my loved ones than believe in nothing....and if Im wrong? that there is nothing after this life...what I have lost at that point except the breath from body. BUT if Im right......then I KNOW i am going to have an abundant afterlife with my God. and i choose the afterlife. I choose a God that loves me enough to think of me whos had done nothing at the age of 13 to still show His magnifigance to me. Maybe He did it just for this reason right here....to talk with you, to let you know He sees you (all of you) and cares for you whether you believe or not. That He sees you as being worth be reached out to, to talk with. There is no afterlife because of what we do, but because of believing by faith that Jesus did live and is the Son of God and did die asking nothing in return but to believe in Him. JCiL

And at the wire Pascal's wager takes the lead, just ahead of personal revelation and argument from emotion. Ladies and Gentlemen please return any winning stubs to the cashier and come again to Apologists Racetrack where any evidence is good enough.

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07-04-2013, 09:57 PM
RE: Claims of seeing God/ Jesus/ Heaven
(07-04-2013 09:36 PM)TheJCexperience Wrote:  
(07-04-2013 08:02 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  God is NOT real.

See, I can say things like "god is real" or "god is not real" without giving proof as well.

Your "vision" of Jebus when you were 13 is hardly proof.
You said it yourself, you were tired as fuck.
When I go to sleep at night I can see myself clear as day rolling around in a giant pile of money, doesn't mean I have a giant pile of money.
Plus, you were 13, the brain is already doing stupid things at the time. And who the fuck remembers anything from when they were 13 anyway? People barely remember a muggers face a couple days after witnessing it.
No, it sounds like you WANT to believe you saw Jesus. Doesn't mean you actually saw Jesus.

Also, side note, if Jebus was real (which he's not), why are you so special that he came to you? What have you done with your life to warrant a visit from Jebus?
Think about that when you're on your deathbed. Maybe you'll then finally reconsidering actually seeing Jebus.

God is real and on this we will not agree and thats ok.
I didnt not phrase my tiredness as you did, I only said I went to bed. Tho I did doze. I did not sleep, therefore, no hallucinations. True we dont always remember everything when we are younger, however, all of us do have memories of things that affected us in some way whether we want to remember or not. This is a memory that has stayed with me. No i dont have a "picture" to prove. even if I did, ppl would say that it was faked, therefore you wouldnt believe me if i did show you "proof". True?? Can we agree on that? There are some things in life that just dont have direct answers, doesnt mean that they didnt happen or couldnt happen or be real. and as a I said, i researched to see if maybe for some reason I did dream something based on a picture, but again, He was like nothing I had ever seen and Im not THAT good at creating something out of thin air.
What had I done with my life that warranted a visit from Jesus? nothing. thats the wonderful thing about God...He doesnt look at our works to decide if we are "good enough" to see Him....He chooses...and I am honored that I got to be one of those people He has chosen. Usually the age of 13 in MANY cultures represents the "coming of age" for a child. Israeli children are considered coming of age at 13...it marks a new beginning to their life toward adulthood, so why not age 13?
In the spiritual aspect I do absolutely want to see Jesus and if I wanted to have that experience again, not up to me..

Now on my deathbed....Id rather believe in an afterlife where i can see my loved ones than believe in nothing....and if Im wrong? that there is nothing after this life...what I have lost at that point except the breath from body. BUT if Im right......then I KNOW i am going to have an abundant afterlife with my God. and i choose the afterlife. I choose a God that loves me enough to think of me whos had done nothing at the age of 13 to still show His magnifigance to me. Maybe He did it just for this reason right here....to talk with you, to let you know He sees you (all of you) and cares for you whether you believe or not. That He sees you as being worth be reached out to, to talk with. There is no afterlife because of what we do, but because of believing by faith that Jesus did live and is the Son of God and did die asking nothing in return but to believe in Him. JCiL

Re..."There is no afterlife because of what we do, but because of believing by faith that Jesus did live and is the Son of God and did die asking nothing in return but to believe in Him. JCiL"

I get a wry smile on my face everytime I hear this.

Ain't it amazing that a fucked up little weazel by the name of Paul, who invented this idea nearly 2000 years ago, can still control people's minds like this?

To "believe in him" is much more than it sounds. It means being controlled by someone...be it a government, a church , a parent, a teacher or a priest. Our mate is a victim.

Here endeth the lesson.
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