Claims of seeing God/ Jesus/ Heaven
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07-04-2013, 10:23 PM
RE: Claims of seeing God/ Jesus/ Heaven
(07-04-2013 10:20 PM)TheJCexperience Wrote:  , I am His and I am forgiven. :-) JCiL

Forgiven of what?

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense

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07-04-2013, 10:38 PM
RE: Claims of seeing God/ Jesus/ Heaven
(07-04-2013 10:23 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(07-04-2013 10:20 PM)TheJCexperience Wrote:  , I am His and I am forgiven. :-) JCiL

Forgiven of what?

Don't you know? For being born, of course.
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07-04-2013, 10:41 PM
RE: Claims of seeing God/ Jesus/ Heaven
(07-04-2013 10:38 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(07-04-2013 10:23 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Forgiven of what?

Don't you know? For being born, of course.

Here's the crux of that entire religion they need forgiveness of something. Something very old that happened so long ago that it only exists as a myth. Since the fact that they don't really need to be forgiven of anything their entire cult falls apart.

So I repeat Forgiven of what?

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense

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07-04-2013, 10:44 PM
RE: Claims of seeing God/ Jesus/ Heaven
(07-04-2013 09:44 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(07-04-2013 09:36 PM)TheJCexperience Wrote:  God is real and on this we will not agree and thats ok.
I didnt not phrase my tiredness as you did, I only said I went to bed. Tho I did doze. I did not sleep, therefore, no hallucinations. True we dont always remember everything when we are younger, however, all of us do have memories of things that affected us in some way whether we want to remember or not. This is a memory that has stayed with me. No i dont have a "picture" to prove. even if I did, ppl would say that it was faked, therefore you wouldnt believe me if i did show you "proof". True?? Can we agree on that? There are some things in life that just dont have direct answers, doesnt mean that they didnt happen or couldnt happen or be real. and as a I said, i researched to see if maybe for some reason I did dream something based on a picture, but again, He was like nothing I had ever seen and Im not THAT good at creating something out of thin air.
What had I done with my life that warranted a visit from Jesus? nothing. thats the wonderful thing about God...He doesnt look at our works to decide if we are "good enough" to see Him....He chooses...and I am honored that I got to be one of those people He has chosen. Usually the age of 13 in MANY cultures represents the "coming of age" for a child. Israeli children are considered coming of age at 13...it marks a new beginning to their life toward adulthood, so why not age 13?
In the spiritual aspect I do absolutely want to see Jesus and if I wanted to have that experience again, not up to me..

Now on my deathbed....Id rather believe in an afterlife where i can see my loved ones than believe in nothing....and if Im wrong? that there is nothing after this life...what I have lost at that point except the breath from body. BUT if Im right......then I KNOW i am going to have an abundant afterlife with my God. and i choose the afterlife. I choose a God that loves me enough to think of me whos had done nothing at the age of 13 to still show His magnifigance to me. Maybe He did it just for this reason right here....to talk with you, to let you know He sees you (all of you) and cares for you whether you believe or not. That He sees you as being worth be reached out to, to talk with. There is no afterlife because of what we do, but because of believing by faith that Jesus did live and is the Son of God and did die asking nothing in return but to believe in Him. JCiL

And at the wire Pascal's wager takes the lead, just ahead of personal revelation and argument from emotion. Ladies and Gentlemen please return any winning stubs to the cashier and come again to Apologists Racetrack where any evidence is good enough.

You have taught me something I did not know existed...thank you, I do appreciate that.
However if you notice in my text i said I KNOW there is an afterlife. I gave that example for you. Pascal's Wagner theory is nice and yes Im sure a lot of people fall back to it without even realizing...however it is a rationalization for those that dont truly know or have faith in God. Please read below....it never once says that a person does not believe. The biggest flaw is not knowing "which" God is the right God, NOT that He doesnt exist. To deny God, to me is denying my own existence and since we are made in His image, I will not deny Him or myself. Think about this also. out of ALL the "messiahs" or prophets....which of them gave themselves even to death, suffering for the sake of those they love......I will tell you...only one..Jesus because of this, I know that there is only one God to follow.


Pascal's Wager
The argument that believing in God is the most logical thing to do since if there is a God and you deny him, then you are in trouble. If there is no god and you accept him, there is no problem because it doesn't matter. Logically, it is better to not deny that God exists than to deny he does. There is truth to this argument, but the problem is that it does not define which "god" to believe in since in many religions, believing in a different god brings a punishing judgment. Nevertheless, this does not excuse a person from at least trying to discover if there is a God or not and who he might be.

JCiL
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07-04-2013, 10:51 PM
RE: Claims of seeing God/ Jesus/ Heaven
(07-04-2013 10:00 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(07-04-2013 09:57 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  ...Ain't it amazing that a fucked up, misogynistic, sexually repressed, little weazel by the name of Paul,...

fixt.

I find it great that you know of Paul. Did you also know that he was blinded for not believing that Jesus is the Christ and yet he became a believer and one of the most outspoken for Jesus afterwards. Also, you do realize that he is documented in history as truly existing. He was a weasel before believing, torturing and killing. Just goes to show how Jesus can take even the worst weasel and turn them around for the good. Thus the negative works paul did were wiped away and forgiven. :-) JCiL
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07-04-2013, 10:55 PM
RE: Claims of seeing God/ Jesus/ Heaven
(07-04-2013 10:12 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(07-04-2013 10:05 PM)TheJCexperience Wrote:  Thats alright cause Im the dolphin...so bring it...Jesus is the Truth and the life and no one comes to the Father accept thru Him. and thank you, Ill hold to Jesus where my strength and wisdom comes from :-) JCiL

So what flavor of christian are you? Would be a shame to waste the transubstantiation argument if you weren't catholic.

I am a Christian, a believer in Jesus Christ, period, I read one book for my faith and that is the Bible...i am not Catholic :-) JCiL
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07-04-2013, 10:57 PM
RE: Claims of seeing God/ Jesus/ Heaven
Dodgy Goodevil

I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
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07-04-2013, 10:58 PM
RE: Claims of seeing God/ Jesus/ Heaven
(07-04-2013 10:38 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(07-04-2013 10:23 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Forgiven of what?

Don't you know? For being born, of course.

no Mark not for being born. God placed us all here. not one of us are a mistake. We have no power over us being here therefore why would we need forgiveness for that? I am forgiven for all the wrong that I have done against God and I have a clean slate with Him so I can Choose of my own free will to worship Him :-) JCiL
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07-04-2013, 11:05 PM
RE: Claims of seeing God/ Jesus/ Heaven
(07-04-2013 10:41 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(07-04-2013 10:38 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Don't you know? For being born, of course.

Here's the crux of that entire religion they need forgiveness of something. Something very old that happened so long ago that it only exists as a myth. Since the fact that they don't really need to be forgiven of anything their entire cult falls apart.

So I repeat Forgiven of what?

No, not from something long ago...I am responsible for my own actions and thoughts. I choose to lead a clean life and that includes worshiping a God of love, a God that was willing to come onto this earth in human form to die for all the wrongs i have done against Him. I choose, because of free will, to follow Him. I could choose to not follow Him..if i wanted. But i choose Him.

have you ever wronged someone, then later felt bad about it?? did you ever go to that person and say you were sorry? im sure somewhere in your life you have. same thing except I say it in prayer.
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07-04-2013, 11:05 PM
RE: Claims of seeing God/ Jesus/ Heaven
I have never given personal testimonies of jesus, or other angelic visitors, to be of any credence whatsoever. My reasons are simple.

Do you ever embellish a story? Do you ever add something that didn't happen to a true event? Maybe you had a date that went like shit, so you lied and said you had a great time. Maybe you narrowly avoided a very humorous accident, and decided that when telling the story, you would change it so that you did not narrowly escape. "It will be more funny this way." You tell yourself.

We have all done it. We all expect it from each other. Of course, things unravel a bit when somebody such as a witness with a conflicting story, ruins everything by confronting you with your lie.

If this is how normal we consider lying to be, in our everyday unimportant lives, how much more incentive do you think we need to lie about a strange near death experience we did not understand, and transform it into a religious proof? What began as floating over your body, turns into marching up the clouds to be hailed by St. Peter at the gates of heaven. Of course we liars have the added benefit of no witnesses to our deception. Since it occurred while we were near death, in our own mind, who can say otherwise? It is clear it is in the best interest of the religious to lie, since no real experience has occurred. They would not know what to do if they were forced to confront their childhood indoctrination (religion) and address it critically in the light of their new experience with death. Anything but that!!

Another evidence of the deception employed by the religious, is the sheer amount of detail in their written and published accounts. They will often pontificate on the colors schemes of the afterlife, and the flora and fauna all around, down to the tiniest detail. Of course they assume we will all read it and say "Wow, so many details. It must be true." This is ridiculous of course, since true stories of near death experiences, engaged in while under immense physical and mental stress, are far more likely to be vague and abstract, considering the brief time spent "dead" and the trauma the victim is undergoing at the time. Who looks around to admire the scenery while dying!!? It is obvious that they sat down afterward, and gave their descriptions much thought.

All of that being said, how much more unreliable are these afterlife claims, seeing as they never agree with one another? Surely someone must have gone to the same afterlife, were there one to go to, or at least someone must have been smart enough to write a lie that matched up with a book already written? But no, they disagree, the same as the bible. Self contradiction is the preferred method of religious writing. It's more fun that way!

If I told you that I was abducted by aliens and probed against my will, what would you say? Surely you would be extremely concerned with my mental health, and your own safety. You would never give me a moment of your time to explain my story, or give evidence as to my experience. You would merely assume I am crazy and perhaps dangerous. This is in no way a bad conclusion to such a claim. I myself would immediately find an excuse to go elsewhere. My point is this, personal experience and eyewitness testimony are frequently inaccurate, incorrect, or simply fabricated. Your "jesus moment" is equally crazy when compared to the alien abduction. It is obviously, and embarrassingly absurd, and fabricated. I don't owe any religious person the time of day to listen to such tripe.

You obviously don't believe the claims of other religions. When was the last time you believed that a Mosque was saved from a hurricane, or a Mormon saw god? You don't. You only believe when it is one of your own telling the fairy tale. That kind of gives you away you know.

The reality is, the religious don't want to respect the supernatural claims of others, they just want their own claims to be respected. Hence the "jesus" experiences are ok and perfectly sane, while the supposed victims of alien abduction will be needing a rubber room. Double standards are only ok when they favor you guys huh? That explains why any religious person can preach on the street what they believe without so much as an irreverent glance, while any atheist of any experience whatsoever knows to remain quiet about his beliefs in public, lest he accidentally give a boo boo to a religious person's feelings. God, you pricks are such melodramatic hypocrites.

Well, "The New Atheism" arising as a result of September 11th 2001, is a movement unwilling to play by these double standards anymore. We are preaching right along side you now, just preaching knowledge, reason, and truth, as opposed to superstition, faith, and fantasy. Don't like it? Good.

Religion, rather than acting as a symbol of truth or justice, merely acts as a symbol of human gullibility and stupidity. Surely no race of beings with any real intelligence would concoct such drivel.
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