Claims of seeing God/ Jesus/ Heaven
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07-04-2013, 11:09 PM
RE: Claims of seeing God/ Jesus/ Heaven
(07-04-2013 10:23 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(07-04-2013 10:20 PM)TheJCexperience Wrote:  No i am NOT catholic and no, no priest in my family. But I do stand strongly on my faith My personal experiences thru Jesus Christ has only strengthen my faith. Jesus has saved me thru His grace. Im not anyone special, yet He holds me in His care. I have seen and experienced His works in my life even tho my actions have not always been what they should be, but thru His grace, mercy and forgiveness, I am His and I am forgiven. :-) JCiL


The Kool-Aid is strong in you. Have you ever read a science book? Or a philosophy book?


yes I have, have you read the Bible? :-) JCiL
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07-04-2013, 11:19 PM
RE: Claims of seeing God/ Jesus/ Heaven
(07-04-2013 10:51 PM)TheJCexperience Wrote:  
(07-04-2013 10:00 PM)Chas Wrote:  fixt.

I find it great that you know of Paul. Did you also know that he was blinded for not believing that Jesus is the Christ and yet he became a believer and one of the most outspoken for Jesus afterwards. Also, you do realize that he is documented in history as truly existing. He was a weasel before believing, torturing and killing. Just goes to show how Jesus can take even the worst weasel and turn them around for the good. Thus the negative works paul did were wiped away and forgiven. :-) JCiL

You know next to nothing about Paul. You're just spouting what you've been told in church and what you've read in the bible. You're so nieve...it hurts.
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07-04-2013, 11:19 PM
RE: Claims of seeing God/ Jesus/ Heaven
(07-04-2013 11:05 PM)Prometheus762 Wrote:  I have never given personal testimonies of jesus, or other angelic visitors, to be of any credence whatsoever. My reasons are simple.

Do you ever embellish a story? Do you ever add something that didn't happen to a true event? Maybe you had a date that went like shit, so you lied and said you had a great time. Maybe you narrowly avoided a very humorous accident, and decided that when telling the story, you would change it so that you did not narrowly escape. "It will be more funny this way." You tell yourself.

We have all done it. We all expect it from each other. Of course, things unravel a bit when somebody such as a witness with a conflicting story, ruins everything by confronting you with your lie.

If this is how normal we consider lying to be, in our everyday unimportant lives, how much more incentive do you think we need to lie about a strange near death experience we did not understand, and transform it into a religious proof? What began as floating over your body, turns into marching up the clouds to be hailed by St. Peter at the gates of heaven. Of course we liars have the added benefit of no witnesses to our deception. Since it occurred while we were near death, in our own mind, who can say otherwise? It is clear it is in the best interest of the religious to lie, since no real experience has occurred. They would not know what to do if they were forced to confront their childhood indoctrination (religion) and address it critically in the light of their new experience with death. Anything but that!!

Another evidence of the deception employed by the religious, is the sheer amount of detail in their written and published accounts. They will often pontificate on the colors schemes of the afterlife, and the flora and fauna all around, down to the tiniest detail. Of course they assume we will all read it and say "Wow, so many details. It must be true." This is ridiculous of course, since true stories of near death experiences, engaged in while under immense physical and mental stress, are far more likely to be vague and abstract, considering the brief time spent "dead" and the trauma the victim is undergoing at the time. Who looks around to admire the scenery while dying!!? It is obvious that they sat down afterward, and gave their descriptions much thought.

All of that being said, how much more unreliable are these afterlife claims, seeing as they never agree with one another? Surely someone must have gone to the same afterlife, were there one to go to, or at least someone must have been smart enough to write a lie that matched up with a book already written? But no, they disagree, the same as the bible. Self contradiction is the preferred method of religious writing. It's more fun that way!

If I told you that I was abducted by aliens and probed against my will, what would you say? Surely you would be extremely concerned with my mental health, and your own safety. You would never give me a moment of your time to explain my story, or give evidence as to my experience. You would merely assume I am crazy and perhaps dangerous. This is in no way a bad conclusion to such a claim. I myself would immediately find an excuse to go elsewhere. My point is this, personal experience and eyewitness testimony are frequently inaccurate, incorrect, or simply fabricated. Your "jesus moment" is equally crazy when compared to the alien abduction. It is obviously, and embarrassingly absurd, and fabricated. I don't owe any religious person the time of day to listen to such tripe.

You obviously don't believe the claims of other religions. When was the last time you believed that a Mosque was saved from a hurricane, or a Mormon saw god? You don't. You only believe when it is one of your own telling the fairy tale. That kind of gives you away you know.

The reality is, the religious don't want to respect the supernatural claims of others, they just want their own claims to be respected. Hence the "jesus" experiences are ok and perfectly sane, while the supposed victims of alien abduction will be needing a rubber room. Double standards are only ok when they favor you guys huh? That explains why any religious person can preach on the street what they believe without so much as an irreverent glance, while any atheist of any experience whatsoever knows to remain quiet about his beliefs in public, lest he accidentally give a boo boo to a religious person's feelings. God, you pricks are such melodramatic hypocrites.

Well, "The New Atheism" arising as a result of September 11th 2001, is a movement unwilling to play by these double standards anymore. We are preaching right along side you now, just preaching knowledge, reason, and truth, as opposed to superstition, faith, and fantasy. Don't like it? Good.


I understand your logic and I can see where you are coming from. I dont always agree with what other ppl say about their visions or abductions. Do I believe its all possible..absolutely. I dont judge other ppl, not my job, but i do love a good conversation. I like to see how other ppl think. I dont bash, i like to discuss. I do wish that there were more ppl like myself that are willing to see all sides. Luckily mine was not a near death experience and it was a short lived vision, so not a lot of details to "embellish" ..sorry. I only said what I saw...nothing more nothing less. Some ppl do still tell the truth :-) JCiL
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07-04-2013, 11:25 PM
RE: Claims of seeing God/ Jesus/ Heaven
(07-04-2013 11:19 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(07-04-2013 10:51 PM)TheJCexperience Wrote:  I find it great that you know of Paul. Did you also know that he was blinded for not believing that Jesus is the Christ and yet he became a believer and one of the most outspoken for Jesus afterwards. Also, you do realize that he is documented in history as truly existing. He was a weasel before believing, torturing and killing. Just goes to show how Jesus can take even the worst weasel and turn them around for the good. Thus the negative works paul did were wiped away and forgiven. :-) JCiL

You know next to nothing about Paul. You're just spouting what you've been told in church and what you've read in the bible. You're so nieve...it hurts.

As i said before, I like to do research...i dont spount....I dont go to church to be "told" i go to learn and worship and the Bible is my guide and because of that I am not nieve. but i am glad you feel for me, thank you :-) JCiL
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07-04-2013, 11:45 PM
RE: Claims of seeing God/ Jesus/ Heaven
(07-04-2013 11:25 PM)TheJCexperience Wrote:  
(07-04-2013 11:19 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  You know next to nothing about Paul. You're just spouting what you've been told in church and what you've read in the bible. You're so nieve...it hurts.

As i said before, I like to do research...i dont spount....I dont go to church to be "told" i go to learn and worship and the Bible is my guide and because of that I am not nieve. but i am glad you feel for me, thank you :-) JCiL

Ok Randi, you say you like research, please read this thread...
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...light=paul

all of it...it's about Saint Paul, then get back to us with your comments. I like research too and I will be happy to read something you recommend.
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08-04-2013, 06:11 AM
RE: Claims of seeing God/ Jesus/ Heaven
(07-04-2013 10:20 PM)TheJCexperience Wrote:  
(07-04-2013 10:04 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  You sure you aren't Catholic? You don't happen to have a priest in the family do you?
Just askin'

No i am NOT catholic and no, no priest in my family. But I do stand strongly on my faith My personal experiences thru Jesus Christ has only strengthen my faith. Jesus has saved me thru His grace. Im not anyone special, yet He holds me in His care. I have seen and experienced His works in my life even tho my actions have not always been what they should be, but thru His grace, mercy and forgiveness, I am His and I am forgiven. :-) JCiL

So I ask you once again, and hopefully this time you'll answer me instead of just spouting more humble tripe, what kind of story do you tell yourself to justify God's lapse of attention, or indifference, or willful malice, or punishment for the car crash that your father was in? Or wait...could it have been punishment?

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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08-04-2013, 06:21 AM
RE: Claims of seeing God/ Jesus/ Heaven
(07-04-2013 11:09 PM)TheJCexperience Wrote:  
(07-04-2013 10:23 PM)Chas Wrote:  The Kool-Aid is strong in you. Have you ever read a science book? Or a philosophy book?


yes I have, have you read the Bible? :-) JCiL

The bible huh? I bet your comprehension skills aren't any better than your writing skills.

Do you believe that the bible is the inerrant word of god? If you do I have some particularly favorite passages I'd like to quote and discuss with you.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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08-04-2013, 06:30 AM
RE: Claims of seeing God/ Jesus/ Heaven
I love how when people see "God", they always see the god they know most about.

Also, what makes you so gosh darn important that God felt the need to be by your side and help, when there are people in constant need all over the world.
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08-04-2013, 06:53 AM
RE: Claims of seeing God/ Jesus/ Heaven
(07-04-2013 09:57 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(07-04-2013 09:36 PM)TheJCexperience Wrote:  There is no afterlife because of what we do, but because of believing by faith that Jesus did live and is the Son of God and did die asking nothing in return but to believe in Him. JCiL

Re..."There is no afterlife because of what we do, but because of believing by faith that Jesus did live and is the Son of God and did die asking nothing in return but to believe in Him. JCiL"

I get a wry smile on my face everytime I hear this.

Ain't it amazing that a fucked up little weazel by the name of Paul, who invented this idea nearly 2000 years ago, can still control people's minds like this?

To "believe in him" is much more than it sounds. It means being controlled by someone...be it a government, a church , a parent, a teacher or a priest. Our mate is a victim.

As I read this it reminded me of a conversation I had with a co-worker regarding my atheism. She wanted to know what kept me from raping and pillaging and eating children (OK, she didn't include the last one) if I had no fear of God. The very same question can be asked of TheJCExperiment and his ilk if all that is required for salvation is faith and what we do carries no weight in the equation.
Talk about your double-standard and complete lack of reasoning. Par for the course.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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08-04-2013, 12:21 PM
RE: Claims of seeing God/ Jesus/ Heaven
(07-04-2013 11:45 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(07-04-2013 11:25 PM)TheJCexperience Wrote:  As i said before, I like to do research...i dont spount....I dont go to church to be "told" i go to learn and worship and the Bible is my guide and because of that I am not nieve. but i am glad you feel for me, thank you :-) JCiL

Ok Randi, you say you like research, please read this thread...
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...light=paul

all of it...it's about Saint Paul, then get back to us with your comments. I like research too and I will be happy to read something you recommend.

You have effectively stolen my life with this. So far it is a fascinating read. Always fun to be able to step behind the curtain and see how the machine was invented.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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