Climate Change - General Discussion
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22-09-2017, 03:17 PM
RE: Climate Change - General Discussion
"The debate about the size of the emissions budget is like a debate about how much cake we have left, and how long we can keep eating cake before it’s gone. Thus, the concept of an emissions budget is very useful to get the message across that the amount of CO2 that we can still emit in total (not per year) is limited if we want to stabilise global temperature at a given level, so any delay in reducing emissions can be detrimental – especially if we cross tipping points in the climate system, e.g trigger the complete loss of the Greenland Ice Sheet. Understanding this fact is critical, even if the exact size of the budget is not known."

"We still live in a world on a path to 3 or 4 °C global warming, waiting to finally turn the tide of rising emissions. At this point, debating whether we have 0.2 °C more or less to go until we reach 1.5 °C is an academic discussion at best, a distraction at worst. The big issue is that we need to see falling emissions globally very very soon if we even want to stay well below 2 °C. That was agreed as the weaker goal in Paris in a consensus by 195 nations. It is high time that everyone backs this up with actions, not just words."

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/arc...l-warming/
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27-09-2017, 04:06 AM
RE: Climate Change - General Discussion
" LATEST MEASUREMENT: August 2017
406.94 ppm"

https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/carbon-dioxide/
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29-09-2017, 04:28 AM
RE: Climate Change - General Discussion
"Global emissions of climate-warming carbon dioxide remained static in 2016, a welcome sign that the world is making at least some progress in the battle against global warming by halting the long-term rising trend. All of the world’s biggest emitting nations, except India, saw falling or static carbon emissions due to less coal burning and increasing renewable energy, according to data published on Thursday by the Netherlands Environmental Assessment Agency (NEAA). However other mainly developing nations, including Indonesia, still have rising rates of CO2 emissions."

"Stalled global emissions still means huge amounts of CO2 are being added to the atmosphere every year – more than 35bn tonnes in 2016 – driving up global temperatures and increasing the risk of damaging, extreme weather. Furthermore, other heat-trapping greenhouse gases, mainly methane from cattle and leaks from oil and gas exploration, are still rising and went up by 1% in 2016."

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/...ign=buffer
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30-09-2017, 03:05 PM
RE: Climate Change - General Discussion
Thoreau, what advice would you give to people who want to help the cause by switching to an electric car? There are plenty of dreamers who talk of replacing the existing fleet of automobiles in this country with electrical alternatives, some within ten years. In fact I've been debating switching to an electric in the next year or two to support the industry, but for that to make much of a difference I'd kind of have to hope that public utilties clean up their act accordingly. Unless that happens, gasoline emissions I'd save would be largely substituted by added load emissions from natural gas.

I'm also aware that EVs are are resource- and energy-intensive to make and have heard varying claims about the how much easily accessible lithium is available to provide for 250 million cars.

Which is not to say that from factory to pavement the EV isn't more energy efficient than your standard ecomomy car. But just talking this over puts into perspective how resource intensive this country's living arrangement really is. So what I'm asking is, would you or me buying electric be marginally applicable to that WW2-scale climate change effort you were describing a few pages ago, or is it mostly self-defeating enterprise in the face of more practicable solutions?

You know, living in hell is a lot more boring than I thought it would be.
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30-09-2017, 06:17 PM (This post was last modified: 30-09-2017 07:41 PM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: Climate Change - General Discussion
(30-09-2017 03:05 PM)Kaneda Wrote:  But just talking this over puts into perspective how resource intensive this country's living arrangement really is. So what I'm asking is, would you or me buying electric be marginally applicable to that WW2-scale climate change effort you were describing a few pages ago, or is it mostly self-defeating enterprise in the face of more practicable solutions?

Those are good questions, and to tell you the truth I'm still researching the alternatives. Lithium is not the only material with which we can make car batteries, so no doubt specialists are working the materials issue. And you should try to charge your electric vehicle from a renewable source, although even without it you get better energy efficiency with an electric vehicle because of all the energy dissipated as heat from internal combustion engines.

I've presented read and taken notes from 36 of 55 books I own on climate change and associated subjects. The one which best details all the different alternatives to present technologies and methods, which in combination could get us to where we need to be, is Drawdown: The Most Comprehensive Plan Ever Proposed To Reverse Global Warming written by a team of specialists and edited by Paul Hawken. They even do the math, so that their implementation strategies are both timely and economical.

So the bottom line is that climate change is so complex, and CO2 emissions so embedded in everything we do, that to tackle the problem we must act on multiple fronts simultaneously. Electric cars and on-shore wind turbines to charge them are part of the solution, but there's no silver bullet. They rate as #26 and #2 in terms of their impact, respectively.

What's important to remember is that we have a certain carbon budget of fossil fuels we can burn and still keep below 2 degrees C. We should be spending that amount to do the work necessary to change over to a renewable economy, because it will take time and energy to build.
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03-10-2017, 01:12 AM (This post was last modified: 03-10-2017 01:24 AM by Kaneda.)
RE: Climate Change - General Discussion
(30-09-2017 06:17 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(30-09-2017 03:05 PM)Kaneda Wrote:  But just talking this over puts into perspective how resource intensive this country's living arrangement really is. So what I'm asking is, would you or me buying electric be marginally applicable to that WW2-scale climate change effort you were describing a few pages ago, or is it mostly self-defeating enterprise in the face of more practicable solutions?

Those are good questions, and to tell you the truth I'm still researching the alternatives. Lithium is not the only material with which we can make car batteries, so no doubt specialists are working the materials issue. And you should try to charge your electric vehicle from a renewable source, although even without it you get better energy efficiency with an electric vehicle because of all the energy dissipated as heat from internal combustion engines.

I've presented read and taken notes from 36 of 55 books I own on climate change and associated subjects. The one which best details all the different alternatives to present technologies and methods, which in combination could get us to where we need to be, is Drawdown: The Most Comprehensive Plan Ever Proposed To Reverse Global Warming written by a team of specialists and edited by Paul Hawken. They even do the math, so that their implementation strategies are both timely and economical.

So the bottom line is that climate change is so complex, and CO2 emissions so embedded in everything we do, that to tackle the problem we must act on multiple fronts simultaneously. Electric cars and on-shore wind turbines to charge them are part of the solution, but there's no silver bullet. They rate as #26 and #2 in terms of their impact, respectively.

What's important to remember is that we have a certain carbon budget of fossil fuels we can burn and still keep below 2 degrees C. We should be spending that amount to do the work necessary to change over to a renewable economy, because it will take time and energy to build.

I'd never heard of Drawdown before. But I took a look at a cover story on the author here and I think I'm beginning to like this fella's perspective. Do you know where I can find a more detailed summary of this book? I'd like to know what specific content it delves into, to maybe help me decide if I want to place an order.

You know, living in hell is a lot more boring than I thought it would be.
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03-10-2017, 01:44 AM
RE: Climate Change - General Discussion
(30-09-2017 06:17 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  Those are good questions, and to tell you the truth I'm still researching the alternatives. Lithium is not the only material with which we can make car batteries, so no doubt specialists are working the materials issue. And you should try to charge your electric vehicle from a renewable source, although even without it you get better energy efficiency with an electric vehicle because of all the energy dissipated as heat from internal combustion engines.

I've presented read and taken notes from 36 of 55 books I own on climate change and associated subjects. The one which best details all the different alternatives to present technologies and methods, which in combination could get us to where we need to be, is Drawdown: The Most Comprehensive Plan Ever Proposed To Reverse Global Warming written by a team of specialists and edited by Paul Hawken. They even do the math, so that their implementation strategies are both timely and economical.

So the bottom line is that climate change is so complex, and CO2 emissions so embedded in everything we do, that to tackle the problem we must act on multiple fronts simultaneously. Electric cars and on-shore wind turbines to charge them are part of the solution, but there's no silver bullet. They rate as #26 and #2 in terms of their impact, respectively.

What's important to remember is that we have a certain carbon budget of fossil fuels we can burn and still keep below 2 degrees C. We should be spending that amount to do the work necessary to change over to a renewable economy, because it will take time and energy to build.

Couldn't find a better hobby, or is this your field?

Anyway...

[Image: tumblr_n2ws28UNWQ1rsrbdko9_500.gif]

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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03-10-2017, 06:00 AM (This post was last modified: 03-10-2017 06:12 AM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: Climate Change - General Discussion
(03-10-2017 01:44 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Couldn't find a better hobby, or is this your field?

I am a retiree and a generalist rather than a specialist, so I have no field per se.

My hobby is reading, and climate change is my latest interest. Will my extensive reading come to anything useful? I don't know yet, but I am determined to be well-informed.

The most severe impacts of climate change will occur long after I'm dead. However, I don't wish to be someone who just let it all happen without at least trying to do something to stop it. Many little problems create the big problem, so even little efforts can contribute to solving it, if enough people make them.

We are making progress.
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03-10-2017, 06:05 AM
RE: Climate Change - General Discussion
(03-10-2017 01:12 AM)Kaneda Wrote:  I'd never heard of Drawdown before. But I took a look at a cover story on the author here and I think I'm beginning to like this fella's perspective. Do you know where I can find a more detailed summary of this book? I'd like to know what specific content it delves into, to maybe help me decide if I want to place an order.

Most of the same information is also available from their website:

http://www.drawdown.org/solutions
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03-10-2017, 06:22 AM
RE: Climate Change - General Discussion
(14-03-2017 02:21 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(14-03-2017 12:03 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Considering the state of overpopulation- the death of billions is more likely.

Then humans will have less impact.

Actually I agree that over-population is one of the most important but least discussed aspects of the climate change problem. In fact one could argue there would be no climate change problem without it -- certainly not in the short run.

Further, the Club of Rome predicted back in the early 1970s, in its Limits to Growth report, that humanity would overrun the carrying capacity of the planet and degrade the environment as a result of future population growth. It would seem that climate change and its impacts are the way that will happen.

Over population currently has very little impact on climate change. Americans are responsible for the majority of greenhouse emissions. Per capita, Americans are responsible for about 10 times the emissions of the average Chinese person. And that is not fully taking into account that a vast amount of Chinese emissions are from producing western consumer goods. A fraction of the world's population is responsible for the majority of greenhouse emissions. Global warming is a very serious problem, and we won't be able to crack it until we are honest about how us westerners are responsible for most of it.

Population will become more of a problem, as more of the world's population tries to live like westerners. But up to this point, the problem has overwhelmingly been caused by westerners. If we were to get our per capita energy use down to that of the average Chinese person, the problem will mostly be solved.
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