Climate Change - General Discussion
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15-03-2017, 11:35 AM
RE: Climate Change - General Discussion
(15-03-2017 11:08 AM)skyking Wrote:  
(15-03-2017 11:04 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  At work.

Sorry for late post.

Just a question, sorry no time for search/review.

In previous post was mentioned 'Poison' and 'Cost' of solar panels.

Might some one know of and post any good information on production/making of said items?

Cheers! Thumbsup
I'm curious too.
That kind of arguement is similar to the logic used by the lobbyists who are actively trying to reduce the EPA to a shell of its former self, and increase the allowed CO2 on new cars in the US.
It was addressed early on in the thead, but we are stiffed with the Trump, and have to go forward knowing that we will loose ground that won't be made up for decades. Sad

Here: How Green Are Those Solar Panels, Really?

Quote:Fabricating the panels requires caustic chemicals such as sodium hydroxide and hydrofluoric acid, and the process uses water as well as electricity, the production of which emits greenhouse gases. It also creates waste. These problems could undercut solar's ability to fight climate change and reduce environmental toxics.

Again, I feel I need to add here, that I am all for a low-carbon economy. Find a way to create an efficient solar panel locally (so the panels don't have to be shipped across the Pacific) that doesn't require the manufacture/use of poisons that end up in the environment and I'll be the first one to install them.

This sort of environmental engineering is years, maybe decades, behind, because of the political sway that climate change deniers have had. If the powers-that-be had recognized that climate change is a real and present danger - and it is, there's really no denying that anymore - then all sorts of energy and resources could have been used in environmental engineering, like developing more efficient photovoltaic cells, etc.

But that business opportunity has been lost, thanks to deniers. We in North America could have become the world leaders in environmental engineering. Now we're "johnny-come-lately" because the deniers carried the argument with manipulated data and outright lies.
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15-03-2017, 11:41 AM
RE: Climate Change - General Discussion
(15-03-2017 10:56 AM)skyking Wrote:  My brother has a large solar installation done by professional contractors. His insurance has not changed a bit. Niether has his taxes.
Becuase he used panels and an inverter made here in Washington state, he gets a preferential reimbursement rate that will pay off his entire $45,000 system in 5 years.

That's great that the local government subsidizes his panels.

I suppose it might be a function of where one lives. Where I am, there's no subsidy, but there are higher insurance premiums and property taxes.

Some of these extra expenses can be avoided if one puts the solar panels on a frame by itself, not attached to the house. But you need a lot of room for that.

[Image: solar-panels-in-a-field-of-oil-seed-rape...cpp7dj.jpg]
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15-03-2017, 11:45 AM
RE: Climate Change - General Discussion
That's the only way I can do it on my property, due to the trees that I love so much ( and hug Tongue )
My house gets far too much tree shadow most of the year. I do have one spot on the property that would have acceptable sunlight, but Western Washington is not prime for it.
It is important to note that not only is my brother's installation subsidized by the government, so is the local manufacturing, in clean plants run to stringent US standards. it is possible to make this work.
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15-03-2017, 12:08 PM
RE: Climate Change - General Discussion
Assuming we can gather the political will, is it practical to think of transitioning the entire world off fossil fuel? I mean, we have nuclear power. We have all these other alternative energy sources. *Could* we, theoretically, ditch oil, coal and natural gas completely?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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15-03-2017, 12:12 PM
RE: Climate Change - General Discussion
The vast stretches of land we travel across and occupy are the problem. Those transport problems are only practically serviced by high density fuels.
I think that many suburban areas can become more like the Netherlands, and eschew fossil fuels on a significant scale.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_in...etherlands
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15-03-2017, 12:17 PM
RE: Climate Change - General Discussion
(15-03-2017 12:08 PM)morondog Wrote:  Assuming we can gather the political will, is it practical to think of transitioning the entire world off fossil fuel? I mean, we have nuclear power. We have all these other alternative energy sources. *Could* we, theoretically, ditch oil, coal and natural gas completely?

Probably. The big problem is transportation. Nuclear and possibly fusion (if it ever gets off the ground) can probably provide base-load requirements for homes and businesses, with solar, wind, maybe even tidal some additional energy.

A place outside of Vancouver called Ballard Power Systems has been working on hydrogen fuel cells for years and it shows some promise. The idea is to have hydrogen fuel cells in individual vehicles, producing electricity that runs the vehicle's engine. The waste product is water. NASA has been using them for years. Space Applications of Hydrogen and Fuel Cells

Thing is, it's very inefficient and expensive. But they may be onto something.

Ballard Systems
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15-03-2017, 12:18 PM
RE: Climate Change - General Discussion
(15-03-2017 11:03 AM)Kaneda Wrote:  
(15-03-2017 10:21 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Dude, thought I ought to let you know that ad hominem attacks are actually permitted on this site except in the personal issues and support and the introduction threads. Also as far as I'm aware individual members who are not mods or admins don't get to dictate rules of conduct even for threads they start themselves.
Hopefully every one will be productive in discussion but unless rules have changed suddenly this is something you need to be aware of. Good luck in what looks like shaping up to be an interesting thread, I'm looking forward to reading it. Regards Adey.

My bad. I see disclaimers like that on message boards all the time and thought it would be a good stylistic add-in. And apologies if I sounded presumptuous; I meant them more as suggestions than actual rules, but I can have that blurb taken down if it goes over then line.

I guessed you did think of them as only suggestions and I applaud you for that. My post was information only, no my bad required on your part at all, The only observation is that your post could be misinterpreted and criticized and then possibly derailed. People need to understand that climate change is real and happening now !!! I support you and wish only the best for you. Regards Adey
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15-03-2017, 12:20 PM
RE: Climate Change - General Discussion
they are already making and using hydrogen buses. Check out this article, both a bus and an emergency generator.
http://www.theverge.com/2016/10/22/13360...mpics-2020
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15-03-2017, 12:55 PM
RE: Climate Change - General Discussion
(14-03-2017 06:30 PM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  Replace your incandescent lights with LED's. Turn the lights off when you don't need them. Turn the heat down and the air conditioning up. Upgrade your insulation and windows. Trade in your gas guzzling 4x4 for a subcompact hybrid. Add some solar panels to home. Your actions alone aren't going to make much of a difference, but if enough of us make small changes it can.

Over the years I have made a fair number of efforts to decrease my environmental impacts. My wife and I had no children. I lived in apartments, and more recently live in a small house. I have always driven fuel-efficient cars, and lived close to work for two out of three of my jobs. Now that I have retired, I've stopped commuting and refuse to travel any more than a few hours away from home. We have fuel-efficient appliances and lightbulbs. I still need to check my attic insulation and switch to some alternate energy supplier, but my wife has been hesitant about the latter.

While it would certainly be helpful for the U.S. government to be supportive of climate change research and policies, in the end it really does come down to individual choices. Climate change was created by billions of small impacts and must ultimately be mitigated the same way. Therefore education is important. Humanity in the future will judge us harshly, perhaps similarly to how we judge the Nazis today, unless we at least do what we can.
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15-03-2017, 01:53 PM (This post was last modified: 15-03-2017 01:56 PM by onlinebiker.)
RE: Climate Change - General Discussion
(15-03-2017 10:56 AM)skyking Wrote:  
(15-03-2017 10:24 AM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  I do admire your ingenuity but for the vast, vast majority of people, a system like yours won't pay off for decades when you factor in the extra cost of home insurance and, depending upon your jurisdiction, the higher property taxes.

As well, the carbon emissions and poisons used/created by the manufacture and transport of the solar panels themselves hasn't been worked into your equation.

Don't get me wrong: I'm all for reducing carbon emissions and uncoupling from a government-controlled (or privately controlled) grid whenever possible, both to save money and maintain one's independence. It's just that there are many hidden costs and wastes to solar panels (and wind power generators) that are too often ignored.

My brother has a large solar installation done by professional contractors. His insurance has not changed a bit. Niether has his taxes.
Becuase he used panels and an inverter made here in Washington state, he gets a preferential reimbursement rate that will pay off his entire $45,000 system in 5 years.

Double post

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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