Climate Change - General Discussion
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15-03-2017, 01:55 PM
RE: Climate Change - General Discussion
45 large????

That's about my electric bill for the rest of my life - and then some......


Doesn't seem like much of a deal to me...

.......................................

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15-03-2017, 01:57 PM
RE: Climate Change - General Discussion
(15-03-2017 10:24 AM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  
(15-03-2017 09:40 AM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  Over the last 2 years my system is generating an average of about 324 KWH a month. That equates to about $32 a month in savings on our utility bill. The system paid for itself in 14 months. Everything after that is gravy.

I understand that I got a deal, and most people would spend a lot more than I did, but you are going to have a hard time convincing me that a better than 20% reduction in our household electrical consumption over the 20 year lifespan of my solar panels isn't a net positive for for everybody. Especially considering that a lot of the power consumed around these parts is generated in coal fired plants.

I do admire your ingenuity but for the vast, vast majority of people, a system like yours won't pay off for decades when you factor in the extra cost of home insurance and, depending upon your jurisdiction, the higher property taxes.

As well, the carbon emissions and poisons used/created by the manufacture and transport of the solar panels themselves hasn't been worked into your equation.

Don't get me wrong: I'm all for reducing carbon emissions and uncoupling from a government-controlled (or privately controlled) grid whenever possible, both to save money and maintain one's independence. It's just that there are many hidden costs and wastes to solar panels (and wind power generators) that are too often ignored.

I think you are probably underestimating the ROI for residential solar. Energy costs for manufacturing and transporting the equipment is included in the cost of the equipment. If it wasn't the manufacturers and transporters would be losing money on the product.

The retail cost of grid tied small scale residential solar has dropped to below $3 a watt installed. Added burdens for insurance and property taxes are low. I have none and I would be surprised if an 1800 watt system like mine cost someone $120 a year in taxes and insurance. Even if I had paid $5400 in initial cost and added $120 a year I would be looking at about a 16 year ROI. Someone in an area that gets more sun than I do would be looking at less.

There is a small 50 KW commercial solar plant a couple of hundred yards from my front door. According to the article I read when it first went in a couple of years ago it generates about $14,000 in electricity every year. They said it would take the plant about 7 years to pay for itself including interest on the loan they got to build it. That puts the cost of this small scale commercial plant at less than $2 a watt installed including anything they are paying to lease the easement it sits on.

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15-03-2017, 02:07 PM
RE: Climate Change - General Discussion
(15-03-2017 01:55 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  45 large????

That's about my electric bill for the rest of my life - and then some......


Doesn't seem like much of a deal to me...

I know some people that pay $1200 a month electric bills for their McMansions. At that rate they'd spend $57,600 on electricity in 4 years. For them spending $45K up front would be a bargain.

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15-03-2017, 02:09 PM
RE: Climate Change - General Discussion
You' be money further ahead buying a 10kw diesel generator for 15k and buy 30k worth of fuel.

Batteries, inverters and charge controllers all require occasional replacement. My small system on my hunting blind has had the controller replaced twice, nearly doubling the system's cost....

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15-03-2017, 02:10 PM
RE: Climate Change - General Discussion
(15-03-2017 02:07 PM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  
(15-03-2017 01:55 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  45 large????

That's about my electric bill for the rest of my life - and then some......


Doesn't seem like much of a deal to me...

I know some people that pay $1200 a month electric bills for their McMansions. At that rate they'd spend $57,600 on electricity in 4 years. For them spending $45K up front would be a bargain.


Sounds like energy swine..

My bill is less than a tenth of that....

.......................................

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15-03-2017, 02:16 PM
RE: Climate Change - General Discussion
(15-03-2017 02:09 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  You' be money further ahead buying a 10kw diesel generator for 15k and buy 30k worth of fuel.

Batteries, inverters and charge controllers all require occasional replacement. My small system on my hunting blind has had the controller replaced twice, nearly doubling the system's cost....

The vast majority of grid tied systems don't use batteries so no charge controllers are required. My $250 inverter came with a 12 year warranty which I haven't had the need to try out yet.

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15-03-2017, 02:20 PM
RE: Climate Change - General Discussion
(15-03-2017 02:10 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Sounds like energy swine..

My bill is less than a tenth of that....

People with a net worth in the tens of millions that live in 8000 square homes don't live under the same constraints you and I are subject to.

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15-03-2017, 02:32 PM
RE: Climate Change - General Discussion
(15-03-2017 02:20 PM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  
(15-03-2017 02:10 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Sounds like energy swine..

My bill is less than a tenth of that....

People with a net worth in the tens of millions that live in 8000 square homes don't live under the same constraints you and I are subject to.

Yup. That explains it...

Same reason to drive a $50,000 hybrid - not for economics or actual concern for the environment -- smugness......

"Gee - ain't I green???"

Fuck ostentatious cunts with 8000 sq ft houses, bragging their "greenness"...

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15-03-2017, 02:39 PM
RE: Climate Change - General Discussion
(15-03-2017 01:55 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  45 large????

That's about my electric bill for the rest of my life - and then some......


Doesn't seem like much of a deal to me...

did you miss the part where it pays off in 5 years, and is free for him from then on?
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15-03-2017, 03:55 PM
RE: Climate Change - General Discussion
(15-03-2017 02:39 PM)skyking Wrote:  
(15-03-2017 01:55 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  45 large????

That's about my electric bill for the rest of my life - and then some......


Doesn't seem like much of a deal to me...

did you miss the part where it pays off in 5 years, and is free for him from then on?

That only works if you get the system for pennies on the dollar, either by buying it cheaply due to someone else's loss - or through government subsidy.

Go buy it retail, like most people would have to - and those wonderful numbers fall flat on their ass....

I'd be on board if you could get me a deal that actually pays for itself... Sadly, I've done the real world math many times over the years - and have never seen it as mathematically possible..

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