Climate Change and ecological collapse
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12-07-2017, 08:36 PM (This post was last modified: 12-07-2017 08:43 PM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: Climate Change and ecological collapse
(12-07-2017 08:14 PM)MacGregor Mathers Wrote:  I'm new to the forum, and late to the thread, so I don't know what the history is here with the user "mmhmm1234,", but I'm at a loss to see why the OP has been met with so much hostility (aside from the fact that "mmhmm1234" is kind of a lame user name). Is it really considered a conspiracy theory to believe that we're in the Sixth Mass Extinction, and that it's caused by human activity? There is very good science to support this.

I guess the only thing I could find objectionable in the OP was the notion that "the wealthiest 1% of men on this planet are bringing about a global mass extinction event." That's just class-conscious scapegoating, trying to make rich people out to be the big meanies. The responsibility is on all of us—all seven billion. To the extent that any one deserves more opprobrium than another, it would have to be based on consumption habits. A vegan one percenter would be less blameworthy than a poor person who dined on meat frequently. Get real, mmhmm1234. Otherwise, good post.

Global capitalism, driven by the 1%, is culpable in many ways for climate change. Or at least that's how I read the point. (I personally think the blame lies mostly with over-population.) Where the OP lost me was the whole "snowball Earth" thing, which was wildly inaccurate. We may indeed face the sixth mass extinction, which means by definition over 75% of all species, but the Earth will not become "a sterile lifeless ball within 300 years."
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12-07-2017, 09:16 PM (This post was last modified: 12-07-2017 09:23 PM by MacGregor Mathers.)
RE: Climate Change and ecological collapse
(12-07-2017 08:36 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  Global capitalism, driven by the 1%, is culpable in many ways for climate change. Or at least that's how I read the point. (I personally think the blame lies mostly with over-population.) Where the OP lost me was the whole "snowball Earth" thing, which was wildly inaccurate. We may indeed face the sixth mass extinction, which means by definition over 75% of all species, but the Earth will not become "a sterile lifeless ball within 300 years."

You're right, a future snowball earth is not likely. But the scenarios for how climate change could play out at this point are still variegated, and the earth will certainly experience more extreme cold in the future. Right now we have positive feedback loops in the arctic that are contributing to increased warming, but it's not outside the realm of possibility for extreme cold to later drive feedback loops of its own. I mean, I'd at least be willing to listen to someone bringing this hypothesis. (Not that it's anything, but Steven Spielberg entertained the notion in the coda to his science fiction movie, A.I.: Artificial Intelligence—although he did place the global ice age two thousand years in the future, not three hundred).

Anyway, it just seems it would've been better to ask mmhmm1234 to provide citations for his or her speculations, rather than just curt dismissals and jokes about meds. (I'll admit that I don't know the history with this poster, though, and I duly note that they're banned). I agree with you that over-population is the primary cause of our present (and future) woes, compounded by over-consumption. However, I don't blame the 1% any more than I do anyone who lives high on the hog.

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12-07-2017, 09:38 PM
RE: Climate Change and ecological collapse
(12-07-2017 08:14 PM)MacGregor Mathers Wrote:  I'm new to the forum, and late to the thread, so I don't know what the history is here with the user "mmhmm1234,", but I'm at a loss to see why the OP has been met with so much hostility (

Thank god you're finally here to teach us how to act in our own house and how to treat jabbering trolls. Phew! We can all breathe a sigh of relief now, the forum is saved, everyone! Drinking Beverage

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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13-07-2017, 04:05 AM
RE: Climate Change and ecological collapse
(12-07-2017 09:16 PM)MacGregor Mathers Wrote:  You're right, a future snowball earth is not likely. But the scenarios for how climate change could play out at this point are still variegated, and the earth will certainly experience more extreme cold in the future. Right now we have positive feedback loops in the arctic that are contributing to increased warming, but it's not outside the realm of possibility for extreme cold to later drive feedback loops of its own.

According to the scientific estimates I've read, 25% of the CO2 we emit into the atmosphere will still be circulating in the carbon cycle in 1000 years, and 10% will still be there to make the Earth's climate warmer for the next 100,000 years. Each gallon of gas yields 2500 kilocalories of energy, but over its lifetime in the atmosphere it will yield 100 billion kilocalories of heat.

At least that's what I read. So any cooling would be much later, and unrelated to the carbon in the atmosphere.
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13-07-2017, 10:25 AM
RE: Climate Change and ecological collapse
(12-07-2017 09:38 PM)Vera Wrote:  Thank god you're finally here to teach us how to act in our own house and how to treat jabbering trolls. Phew! We can all breathe a sigh of relief now, the forum is saved, everyone!

What an odd response. I plainly admitted that I didn't know the history of the person. Treat trolls however you please. There just didn't seem to be anything too trollish about the OP, hence my curiosity about the tenor of the responses. If mmhmm1234 had been spamming the forum with hysterical warnings about an impending snowball earth caused the wealthy 1%, then okay. You could've just told me.

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13-07-2017, 10:35 AM
RE: Climate Change and ecological collapse
(13-07-2017 10:25 AM)MacGregor Mathers Wrote:  Treat trolls however you please.


Thank you for kind permission Drinking Beverage

Quote:What an odd response. I plainly admitted that I didn't know the history of the person.

No odder than bursting in, guns a-blazing and on more than one occasion expressing your oh-so-informed opinion on how we should have responded to an already established troll.

Quote:There just didn't seem to be anything too trollish about the OP, hence my curiosity about the tenor of the responses. If mmhmm1234 had been spamming the forum with hysterical warnings about an impending snowball earth caused the wealthy 1%, then okay.

Quote:it just seems it would've been better to ask mmhmm1234 to provide citations for his or her speculations, rather than just curt dismissals and jokes about meds. (I'll admit that I don't know the history with this poster, though

As a newcomer, it might behoove you to get acquainted with the place and its inhabitants before passing judgement on their behaviour. Drinking Beverage

Quote:You could've just told me.

Or you could have read it for yourself BEFORE passing judgement, repeatedly, about how poor mhmm was treated Drinking Beverage

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13-07-2017, 10:40 AM
RE: Climate Change and ecological collapse
(13-07-2017 04:05 AM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  According to the scientific estimates I've read, 25% of the CO2 we emit into the atmosphere will still be circulating in the carbon cycle in 1000 years, and 10% will still be there to make the Earth's climate warmer for the next 100,000 years. Each gallon of gas yields 2500 kilocalories of energy, but over its lifetime in the atmosphere it will yield 100 billion kilocalories of heat.

At least that's what I read. So any cooling would be much later, and unrelated to the carbon in the atmosphere.

Thank you. That's the kind of measured and scientific response I thought the OP should've received to begin with. 100,000 years is a good ways off, and even the wealthiest caste of humans will probably be long gone by then.

I guess the OP had been making some sort of crusade out of this topic, and the earlier responses simply reflected how wearied people had gotten with it. I regret resurrecting the thread (not an auspicious start for me), but I was only looking for an interesting subject. Doomsday climate change scenarios can be pretty fascinating. There's a biologist named Guy McPherson who estimates that humans will be extinct by 2030. Now that's some extreme speculation. I don't believe it for a second, but I always like it when doomsday prophets confidently put the date within their own conceivable lifetime. It's fun to watch the explaining when things don't pan out.

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13-07-2017, 10:53 AM
RE: Climate Change and ecological collapse
(13-07-2017 10:35 AM)Vera Wrote:  No odder than bursting in, guns a-blazing and on more than one occasion expressing your oh-so-informed opinion on how we should have responded to an already established troll.

On more than what occasion? This is the first thread I've participated in. I'm not seeing what warrants your continued sarcasm. In my first response here I conceded that the person might've been trolling, so I'm not sure how that's "guns a-blazing." I wasn't "passing judgment." I admitted not knowing the history. Just say, "the history is, this person was a troll."

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13-07-2017, 10:57 AM
RE: Climate Change and ecological collapse
Quote:There just didn't seem to be anything too trollish about the OP, hence my curiosity about the tenor of the responses. If mmhmm1234 had been spamming the forum with hysterical warnings about an impending snowball earth caused the wealthy 1%, then okay.

Quote:it just seems it would've been better to ask mmhmm1234 to provide citations for his or her speculations, rather than just curt dismissals and jokes about meds. (I'll admit that I don't know the history with this poster, though

Quote:but I'm at a loss to see why the OP has been met with so much hostility

In your what - five? - posts in this thread you have commented at least three separate times on how we didn't respond the way we should have. I call this repeatedly. What do you call it?

Quote:I'm not seeing what warrants your continued sarcasm

Wasn't aware you were the final authority on what warrants sarcasm and what doesn't.


Seriously, do you always go into people's houses and right from the door start telling them how to talk and act? Drinking Beverage

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13-07-2017, 11:16 AM
RE: Climate Change and ecological collapse
(13-07-2017 10:57 AM)Vera Wrote:  In your what - five? - posts in this thread you have commented at least three separate times on how we didn't respond the way we should have. I call this repeatedly. What do you call it?

In both instances, I conceded the possibility of trolling justifying the responses. I admitted that if trolling was the issue, then the responses were explicable.

(13-07-2017 10:57 AM)Vera Wrote:  Wasn't aware you were the final authority on what warrants sarcasm and what doesn't.

Seriously, do you always go into people's houses and right from the door start telling them how to talk and act?

I can only be the final authority on what constitutes sarcasm for myself. Your responses seemed to have an eye-rolling "thank god you're here to save us from ourselves" quality to them. I admit that I could've been wrong about seeing this kind of talk as sarcasm, and maybe you meant it seriously. If you're a Christian who's actually thanking God for my presence on this forum, then: with all due respect, you are deluded in more ways than can probably be remedied.

I don't go into people's houses and tell them how to act, no. But a forum is more like a public square. If I saw, say, someone kicking or beating their dog in public, I'd probably intervene, or at least question it. I would of course concede the possibility of there being some justification. Maybe the dog had gotten rabies, and had suddenly started foaming at the mouth and attacked them.

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