Poll: Is climate change real
Yes, but humans have little to no impact on it
Yes, and humans are contributing in a meaningful way
No, just a hoax/conspiracy
I don't know
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Climate Change and the Human Influence
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10-11-2016, 10:19 AM
RE: Climate Change and the Human Influence
(10-11-2016 10:17 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(10-11-2016 10:15 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  I didn't answer your poll - because my answer wouldn't fit.

....

Again - I agree we affect climate. It's inevitable.

Think of the climate as a rowboat. Port is cooling, starboard is heating.

Anything you do - is going to cause the boat to heel to port or starboard.

The only way you can eliminate any effect (however small) is to remove the guy from the boat.

But our effect isn't small nor is it akin to a ripple on a pond from an oar. Humans are currently the primary source (of greenhouse gases and other processes that provide positive feedback loops) behind the mechanism changing our climate (the global carbon cycle and the greenhouse effect).


No argument here.

....

Logically -- what's the best solution?

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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10-11-2016, 10:21 AM
RE: Climate Change and the Human Influence
(10-11-2016 10:19 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(10-11-2016 10:17 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  But our effect isn't small nor is it akin to a ripple on a pond from an oar. Humans are currently the primary source (of greenhouse gases and other processes that provide positive feedback loops) behind the mechanism changing our climate (the global carbon cycle and the greenhouse effect).


No argument here.

....

Logically -- what's the best solution?

Step 1) Get people to recognize the problem
Step 2) Get people to recognize the source
Step 3) Effect change to reduce and ultimately eliminate the primary things we are doing to contribute to the problem (change our energy supplies and alter the way we develop and exploit our ecosystems)
Step 4) Prepare for the inevitable adverse effects (sea level rise, widespread drought in some areas and flash flooding in others, storm surges from bigger and more frequent storms in a world with higher sea level on average, etc)

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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10-11-2016, 10:25 AM
RE: Climate Change and the Human Influence
(10-11-2016 10:21 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(10-11-2016 10:19 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  No argument here.

....

Logically -- what's the best solution?

Step 1) Get people to recognize the problem
Step 2) Get people to recognize the source
Step 3) Effect change to reduce and ultimately eliminate the primary things we are doing to contribute to the problem (change our energy supplies and alter the way we develop and exploit our ecosystems)
Step 4) Prepare for the inevitable adverse effects (sea level rise, widespread drought in some areas and flash flooding in others, storm surges from bigger and more frequent storms in a world with higher sea level on average, etc)


You're overlooking the obvious - and only permanent solution ---

[Image: Fat-Guy-in-a-Small-Boat-WTF-Pictures.jpg]


Does this better illustrate the problem???

The #1 way to effect climate control - is population control.

A smaller guy in the boat is less of a problem, yes??

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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10-11-2016, 11:14 AM
RE: Climate Change and the Human Influence
(10-11-2016 10:25 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(10-11-2016 10:21 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Step 1) Get people to recognize the problem
Step 2) Get people to recognize the source
Step 3) Effect change to reduce and ultimately eliminate the primary things we are doing to contribute to the problem (change our energy supplies and alter the way we develop and exploit our ecosystems)
Step 4) Prepare for the inevitable adverse effects (sea level rise, widespread drought in some areas and flash flooding in others, storm surges from bigger and more frequent storms in a world with higher sea level on average, etc)


You're overlooking the obvious - and only permanent solution ---

[Image: Fat-Guy-in-a-Small-Boat-WTF-Pictures.jpg]


Does this better illustrate the problem???

The #1 way to effect climate control - is population control.

A smaller guy in the boat is less of a problem, yes??

It is very clearly a problem that is exacerbated by an enormous population. But it isn't currently unsustainable, it is that it is being treated that way. Technology is the way we can have a large population and make it sustainable, but we have to live within our means as it were.

Sure, one possible "solution" is for there to be a rapid reduction in the number of people on Earth, but that's not really a solution when what we are talking about is a solution that works for humanity. It doesn't really help us if we simply hope for most of us to die.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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10-11-2016, 11:34 AM
RE: Climate Change and the Human Influence
(10-11-2016 11:14 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  It is very clearly a problem that is exacerbated by an enormous population. But it isn't currently unsustainable, it is that it is being treated that way. Technology is the way we can have a large population and make it sustainable, but we have to live within our means as it were.

Sure, one possible "solution" is for there to be a rapid reduction in the number of people on Earth, but that's not really a solution when what we are talking about is a solution that works for humanity. It doesn't really help us if we simply hope for most of us to die.

Yabut, there is always hope. Yes

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-11-2016, 11:44 AM
RE: Climate Change and the Human Influence
(10-11-2016 11:34 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(10-11-2016 11:14 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  It is very clearly a problem that is exacerbated by an enormous population. But it isn't currently unsustainable, it is that it is being treated that way. Technology is the way we can have a large population and make it sustainable, but we have to live within our means as it were.

Sure, one possible "solution" is for there to be a rapid reduction in the number of people on Earth, but that's not really a solution when what we are talking about is a solution that works for humanity. It doesn't really help us if we simply hope for most of us to die.

Yabut, there is always hope. Yes

Trump might very well bring about that apocalypse that the evangelicals have been begging for

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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10-11-2016, 12:51 PM
RE: Climate Change and the Human Influence
(10-11-2016 11:44 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(10-11-2016 11:34 AM)Chas Wrote:  Yabut, there is always hope. Yes

Trump might very well bring about that apocalypse that the evangelicals have been begging for

Except there won't be a rapture. Drinking Beverage

They'll be stuck with the rest of us.

Really, our country should be leading the world in this. We sent a man to the moon and brought him back years before we were projected to.

But we can't lead the world, we're too busy astroturfing with bad information from important sounding think tanks paid for by Koch brothers and the oil industry.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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10-11-2016, 12:58 PM
RE: Climate Change and the Human Influence
We live on the Earth, if we had no industry at all, we would still have an effect on the planet simply because we are here.

Now add all the shit we continue to spew into the air, ground, and seas of this planet and tell me we have little or no impact.
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10-11-2016, 01:59 PM
RE: Climate Change and the Human Influence
(10-11-2016 11:14 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(10-11-2016 10:25 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  You're overlooking the obvious - and only permanent solution ---

[Image: Fat-Guy-in-a-Small-Boat-WTF-Pictures.jpg]


Does this better illustrate the problem???

The #1 way to effect climate control - is population control.

A smaller guy in the boat is less of a problem, yes??

It is very clearly a problem that is exacerbated by an enormous population. But it isn't currently unsustainable, it is that it is being treated that way. Technology is the way we can have a large population and make it sustainable, but we have to live within our means as it were.

Sure, one possible "solution" is for there to be a rapid reduction in the number of people on Earth, but that's not really a solution when what we are talking about is a solution that works for humanity. It doesn't really help us if we simply hope for most of us to die.

Nobody has to get dead for this to work ---

We just need to quit promoting procreation for the sake of procreating.....

My SO and I are doing our part --- neither of us has any kids....

Continuous population growth (which we currently have) is a dead end. It's just for the comfort and convenience of the elderly in the population (who currently count on their offspring to take care of them).....

It's the kids of tomorrow that will be caught holding the bag - when the resources run out, and the environment turns to toxic shit.....

We need to re-think how society builds itself - and do it in a good way --- rather than the horrors of the NAZIs and their idea of a "master race".....

But - if we want to survive more than a few more generations -- we'd best get at it now -- while we still can...

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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10-11-2016, 04:52 PM
RE: Climate Change and the Human Influence
Humans are emitting CO2 at a rate comparable to the amount of CO2 that would be expected from a supervolcano eruption. Annually. If you can explain how that is not causing global climate change then I have a bridge that you might be interested in buying.

The problem isn't that humans are changing the Earth's climate. As has often been stated, typically misleadingly, climate change occurs naturally. The problem is the rate and the degree. We are causing far too much change far too rapidly. Neither evolution nor civilization will be able to keep up, leading to mass extinctions, possibly of us.

Over-population is certainly a large driving force, though there's a lot of blame to be laid at the feet of rampant consumerism. The difficulty with tackling over-population is that (1) There's little to no social/political will and large groups that acively oppose it. (2) While it's an excellent long-term solution there are no effective means of short-term population reduction that don't involve mass murder.

Don't think of it as putting a thinner guy in the boat. There is no other boater. Think of it as putting him on a diet. Effective in the long run, but we'll need to correct course and bail like a sonofabitch until our population drops a few pounds. And if we don't do that then we're going to get a very abrupt population reduction.

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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