Clinton Trail of Bodies
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02-06-2016, 12:57 AM (This post was last modified: 02-06-2016 01:02 AM by Vosur.)
RE: Clinton Trail of Bodies
(01-06-2016 04:38 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  And the judge in the lawsuit against Trump U is being mean to little Donny 'cause the judge is a murderous rapist Mexican.
That's a nice straw man you have there. Can you show even a single example of someone saying that? Consider

(01-06-2016 07:35 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  Isn't there a difference between saying "it's only reaching the magnitude" and "being investigated for"? As far as I can tell they didn't say specifically that she was being investigated for it because she's a woman, so it's a bit more vague.
I don't think it's vague at all. She said that it's a gendered issue and that her male colleagues have gotten away with "literally the same things" (a shameless lie). The implication there is that if she was a man, she would have gotten away with it too, but since she's a woman, the FBI decided to investigate her instead. Gender simply has nothing to do with the case whatsoever.

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02-06-2016, 04:26 AM
RE: Clinton Trail of Bodies
(01-06-2016 09:54 AM)Old Man Marsh Wrote:  Has our society ever executed an innocent person?

If so, we're all have blood on our hands. No exceptions or excuses. No but-that-wasn't-me.

Vote for whomever you wish. Vote for a potted plant, I don't care. Nothing washes blood away, and it covers all of us. There's no such thing as being special.

So, because I was born into a society that may have done unjust things I'm not allowed to be appalled at someone who pushed a policy that lead directly to dropping bombs on people who had done nothing to us and the overthrow of democratically elected governments she didn't like?

Really?

I don't think so. I flat out reject the "original societal sin" argument. I'm not responsible for Eve eating from the tree of knowledge, for Jesus being put upon the cross, for white privilege or for the state killing innocent people. Two of those things I don't believe happened and 2 of those things I played no part in. As for my collective responsibility, I'm lucky most days if I can get my 13 year old to do his homework so my ability to influence the world around me is fairly limited.

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02-06-2016, 04:53 AM
RE: Clinton Trail of Bodies
(02-06-2016 04:26 AM)BnW Wrote:  
(01-06-2016 09:54 AM)Old Man Marsh Wrote:  Has our society ever executed an innocent person?

If so, we're all have blood on our hands. No exceptions or excuses. No but-that-wasn't-me.

Vote for whomever you wish. Vote for a potted plant, I don't care. Nothing washes blood away, and it covers all of us. There's no such thing as being special.

So, because I was born into a society that may have done unjust things I'm not allowed to be appalled at someone who pushed a policy that lead directly to dropping bombs on people who had done nothing to us and the overthrow of democratically elected governments she didn't like?

Really?

I don't think so. I flat out reject the "original societal sin" argument. I'm not responsible for Eve eating from the tree of knowledge, for Jesus being put upon the cross, for white privilege or for the state killing innocent people. Two of those things I don't believe happened and 2 of those things I played no part in. As for my collective responsibility, I'm lucky most days if I can get my 13 year old to do his homework so my ability to influence the world around me is fairly limited.

You're right. I'm sorry. Sad

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02-06-2016, 05:20 AM
RE: Clinton Trail of Bodies
(02-06-2016 12:57 AM)Vosur Wrote:  That's a nice straw man you have there. Can you show even a single example of someone saying that? Consider

Trump made the point the judge was a "hater" and a Mexican, despite the fact the guy was born in Indiana. Exactly what do you think he was trying to imply with those comments. The rapist comment was hyperbole (something I believe you are familiar with) but the racism in the comment is blatant. He's telling his supporters that it's "us" vs "them" and any person with a Mexican sounding name is always going to be them. And, if you think the image of Mexican rapists is far fetched for him, then you're not paying attention.

(02-06-2016 12:57 AM)Vosur Wrote:  I don't think it's vague at all. She said that it's a gendered issue and that her male colleagues have gotten away with "literally the same things" (a shameless lie). The implication there is that if she was a man, she would have gotten away with it too, but since she's a woman, the FBI decided to investigate her instead. Gender simply has nothing to do with the case whatsoever.

I don't think it's vague either. So what? Are you trying to claim this one individual speaks for the larger group? You sure you want to make that claim? You like to defend trump. Does that mean you're now linked in with all the hate groups that support him? Are you part of the Klan? The American Nazi party? They support trump, you know. What does that say about you? Or, maybe you want to avoid lumping groups of people together based on the comments of small groups or an individual.

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02-06-2016, 05:48 AM
RE: Clinton Trail of Bodies
(02-06-2016 05:20 AM)BnW Wrote:  Trump made the point the judge was a "hater" and a Mexican, despite the fact the guy was born in Indiana. Exactly what do you think he was trying to imply with those comments. The rapist comment was hyperbole (something I believe you are familiar with) but the racism in the comment is blatant. He's telling his supporters that it's "us" vs "them" and any person with a Mexican sounding name is always going to be them. And, if you think the image of Mexican rapists is far fetched for him, then you're not paying attention.
In short: Yes, it's a straw man because nobody called the judge a murderer (you conveniently failed to address that part in your post) or a rapist. A simple "Trump accused the judge of being biased towards him on account of being Hispanic/Mexican" would have sufficed, but no, people always have to make shit up when they criticize him and destroy their credibility that way.

(02-06-2016 05:20 AM)BnW Wrote:  I don't think it's vague either. So what? Are you trying to claim this one individual speaks for the larger group? You sure you want to make that claim? You like to defend trump. Does that mean you're now linked in with all the hate groups that support him? Are you part of the Klan? The American Nazi party? They support trump, you know. What does that say about you? Or, maybe you want to avoid lumping groups of people together based on the comments of small groups or an individual.
How many examples would I have to show you until you admitted that playing the woman card is a very common tactic among Clinton supporters? Give me a number.

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02-06-2016, 06:41 AM
RE: Clinton Trail of Bodies
To your first point, you mean like saying Hillary Clinton is the most corrupt politician of all time? That kind of comment destroys credibility?

And, trump made a sweeping comment when he announced his campaign that Mexicans in this country were rapists and murderers (and "some" are "probably" good people). Those are his words. He went out of his way to paint a very specific picture. When he goes out of his way to call this judge a Mexican, it's very fair to take his previous comments and extrapolate his intention and message.

What exactly do you think he was trying to say if not that? Why bring it up at all unless the point was to tell his followers that this guy is a somehow less than and they don't have to believe his rulings being legally valid. I think implying he was at least associated with rapists and murderers is EXACTLY what Trump was implying with that statement. And, if it wasn't, please tell me the non racist reason.

As to your second point: how many do you have? I guess it's the same number of comments and support from white supremacist organizations it will take to convince you that you are now part of them.

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02-06-2016, 07:10 AM
RE: Clinton Trail of Bodies
If I could go high enough up the family tree, I'd probably find that I have rape on my hands. Vicariously.

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02-06-2016, 11:54 AM
RE: Clinton Trail of Bodies
(02-06-2016 06:41 AM)BnW Wrote:  To your first point, you mean like saying Hillary Clinton is the most corrupt politician of all time? That kind of comment destroys credibility?
You know, if you're going to make an accusation based on what someone said, it's probably a good idea to make sure that you repeat their words accurately. What I said is that she is the most corrupt politician in US history, not the most corrupt politician of all time. Besides, I think you'd be hard-pressed to disagree with that statement if you knew about the history of the Clinton Foundation and its many nefarious donors.

(02-06-2016 06:41 AM)BnW Wrote:  And, trump made a sweeping comment when he announced his campaign that Mexicans in this country were rapists and murderers (and "some" are "probably" good people). Those are his words. He went out of his way to paint a very specific picture. When he goes out of his way to call this judge a Mexican, it's very fair to take his previous comments and extrapolate his intention and message.
I can only assume that you didn't listen to or read what he said yourself before making this post, otherwise you would have known that he never called them murderers and wouldn't have claimed that "Those are his words." This is the transcript:

"When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you (pointing to the audience). They’re not sending you (pointing again). They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems to us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people! But I speak to border guards and they tell us what we’re getting. And it only makes common sense. They’re sending us not the right people. It’s coming from more than Mexico. It’s coming from all over South and Latin America, and it’s coming probably from the Middle East. But we don’t know. Because we have no protection and we have no competence, we don’t know what’s happening. And it’s got to stop and it’s got to stop fast.”

(02-06-2016 06:41 AM)BnW Wrote:  What exactly do you think he was trying to say if not that? Why bring it up at all unless the point was to tell his followers that this guy is a somehow less than and they don't have to believe his rulings being legally valid. I think implying he was at least associated with rapists and murderers is EXACTLY what Trump was implying with that statement. And, if it wasn't, please tell me the non racist reason.
The judge in question is a Hispanic/Mexican. Trump made disparaging comments about Hispanics/Mexicans in the past. If you put two and two together, it's not that hard to see why Trump thinks that the judge is biased against him. Take, for example, a black judge in a case where the accused is a member of the KKK. Is it really so strange to imagine that the judge might not be impartial in such a case? They're not emotionless robots, they're humans who are prone to bias just like the rest of us.

(02-06-2016 06:41 AM)BnW Wrote:  As to your second point: how many do you have?
I can give you as many as you need because I've spent the last year reading quite literally thousands of comments from Clinton, Trump and Sanders supporters in their respective online communities (two of those have over a hundred thousand members).

(02-06-2016 06:41 AM)BnW Wrote:  I guess it's the same number of comments and support from white supremacist organizations it will take to convince you that you are now part of them.
That's a silly notion, considering that I'm not a Trump supporter. Jim Webb is my guy. He's a Democrat with a good mix of socially liberal and fiscally conservative policies. I do admit that I hope Trump picks him as his VP, though.

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02-06-2016, 06:18 PM (This post was last modified: 02-06-2016 06:24 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Clinton Trail of Bodies
(02-06-2016 11:54 AM)Vosur Wrote:  The judge in question is a Hispanic/Mexican. Trump made disparaging comments about Hispanics/Mexicans in the past. If you put two and two together, it's not that hard to see why Trump thinks that the judge is biased against him. Take, for example, a black judge in a case where the accused is a member of the KKK. Is it really so strange to imagine that the judge might not be impartial in such a case? They're not emotionless robots, they're humans who are prone to bias just like the rest of us.

You have a very low opinion of our judges. I don't know how it is in Germany or Czech but in the US judges will recuse themselves if they feel a bias or conflict of interest. That's like Ethics 101 for judges.

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02-06-2016, 06:21 PM
RE: Clinton Trail of Bodies
(18-05-2016 05:35 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  To find the bodies in the wake of Bill Clinton, one only needs to follow the semen stained dresses.

For every dead sperm cell are you counting an unborn person?
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