Clinton Used Prison Labor, aka modern slave labor
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11-06-2017, 11:22 AM
RE: Clinton Used Prison Labor, aka modern slave labor
(11-06-2017 11:19 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 10:20 AM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  No it ain't. These killers and other extreme and not so extreme prisoners have a debt to pay to society. They are paying it back in that manner.

I have mixed opinions on the issue but I disagree with that assessment unless they were specifically sentenced to labor or they are getting a sentence reduction because of it.

In the articles I linked many with inmate jobs are paying child support and some are paying restitution out of what they earn.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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11-06-2017, 11:29 AM
RE: Clinton Used Prison Labor, aka modern slave labor
(11-06-2017 11:22 AM)Anjele Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 11:19 AM)unfogged Wrote:  I have mixed opinions on the issue but I disagree with that assessment unless they were specifically sentenced to labor or they are getting a sentence reduction because of it.

In the articles I linked many with inmate jobs are paying child support and some are paying restitution out of what they earn.

With regard to "paying their debt" for the crime then paying child support is not part of that. Working to pay court-ordered restitution is.

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11-06-2017, 11:30 AM
RE: Clinton Used Prison Labor, aka modern slave labor
(11-06-2017 11:29 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 11:22 AM)Anjele Wrote:  In the articles I linked many with inmate jobs are paying child support and some are paying restitution out of what they earn.

With regard to "paying their debt" for the crime then paying child support is not part of that. Working to pay court-ordered restitution is.

Agreed.

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11-06-2017, 11:42 AM
Clinton Used Prison Labor, aka modern slave labor
If I was a prisoner I would want to work doing something. I would hate sitting around all day.
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11-06-2017, 12:11 PM
RE: Clinton Used Prison Labor, aka modern slave labor
(11-06-2017 09:21 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 09:18 AM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  Like it or not, that's what they do there.

Remember, the Governor's Mansion does not belong to the governor at the time; it belongs to the state, and if the state wants prisoners to do labour on the grounds, then that's what happens.

It's slave labor.

Many states use prison labor to do jobs outside the prison, including Missouri... and while I do consider it a form of slavery, most of them do actually allow the inmates to choose their job, and pay them miniscule (but very important when you're otherwise living off $5/month--that's not a typo--to buy toothpaste and toilet paper on the inside) wages in exchange. The ability to choose to do it or not, I think, is critical in whether or not one considers it actual slavery. However, given that the state is the literal owner of these people (all prisoners technically belong to the Governor, as chattel, personally, while serving their sentences) and is making profits--not just savings by using the labor, but actually using them to make money for both the state and "favored" businesses that use their products--from prison labor, it's fair to call the above system slavery.

Arkansas is very different from most states. Their slave labor is compulsory and deliberately difficult. I would in no uncertain terms refer to what Arkansas does as actual slavery, and I cannot really see a rational argument that would be able to claim otherwise.

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I think an understanding of the history of prison labor is important, to understand its ties to chattel slavery.

http://www.endslaverynow.org/blog/articl...-in-the-us

However, it's also important to understand that slavery is still legal in the United States. The 13th amendment, which "abolished" slavery, reads:

"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."

(Emphasis mine.)

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11-06-2017, 12:29 PM
RE: Clinton Used Prison Labor, aka modern slave labor
(11-06-2017 09:21 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 09:18 AM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  Like it or not, that's what they do there.

Remember, the Governor's Mansion does not belong to the governor at the time; it belongs to the state, and if the state wants prisoners to do labour on the grounds, then that's what happens.

It's slave labor.

Is it slave labor if they volunteer? My brother-in-law said he volunteered to pick up trash on the side of the road just to get the fuck out of the place and break the monotony for a while.

#sigh
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11-06-2017, 12:33 PM
RE: Clinton Used Prison Labor, aka modern slave labor
(11-06-2017 12:29 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 09:21 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  It's slave labor.

Is it slave labor if they volunteer? My brother-in-law said he volunteered to pick up trash on the side of the road just to get the fuck out of the place and break the monotony for a while.

Aw geez Girly...here it comes. Facepalm

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11-06-2017, 12:54 PM
RE: Clinton Used Prison Labor, aka modern slave labor
(11-06-2017 12:33 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 12:29 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Is it slave labor if they volunteer? My brother-in-law said he volunteered to pick up trash on the side of the road just to get the fuck out of the place and break the monotony for a while.

Aw geez Girly...here it comes. Facepalm

What'd I say? I think it's an interesting question. He could've stayed in and read all day but he's not much of a reader.

#sigh
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11-06-2017, 01:10 PM
RE: Clinton Used Prison Labor, aka modern slave labor
(11-06-2017 12:54 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 12:33 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Aw geez Girly...here it comes. Facepalm

What'd I say? I think it's an interesting question. He could've stayed in and read all day but he's not much of a reader.

I posted links to articles regarding SC that state that taking part in prison labor is voluntary.

It's been argued that being a prisoner in and of itself makes working in prison industries not voluntary.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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11-06-2017, 01:16 PM
RE: Clinton Used Prison Labor, aka modern slave labor
(11-06-2017 11:20 AM)Anjele Wrote:  
(11-06-2017 11:07 AM)mordant Wrote:  One could argue that it's a choiceless choice, given the limited options and inherent involuntary status of prison inmates -- even if they are paid and / or given special privileges or learn a new skill.

One could argue that it's just part of the "New Jim Crow" given the disproportionate number of African-Americans who are incarcerated for, e.g., drug possession or use despite their actual rates of illegal drug use being lower than whites.

The stories cited about prison work and how it is routinely and "traditionally" and extensively used, suggests an economy dependent on cheap / free / involuntary labor and a system that rewards and encourages higher incarceration rates to meet the needs of that dependency. It reminds me of my former home state, Arizona, which is addicted to cheap illegal immigrant labor, and constitutes a system that perpetuates illegal immigration and keeps such people marginalized and impoverished.

Technically I would say it's more a form of involuntary servitude than slavery, and the degree to which it's unfair depends on the backstory of each individual. A troubled Afro-American teen doing a draconian sentence for possession of pot? That would come far closer to exploitation and oppression than a white collar criminal who stole people's retirement money despite having a comfortable lifestyle / source of income of their own.

So you are okay with the jobs for inmates being doled out based on race and economic background.
Of course not. Why would you say that?
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