Closet Atheism
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06-05-2012, 08:31 PM
Closet Atheism
I go to Church 2, sometimes 3 times a week. No, I don't have a choice. Usually I just tune it out for the majority of the time and text or do whatever in the back of the room, but sometimes I listen. This particular morning was one of those days.

The pastor covered a huge range of topics, from not listening to "trash" music from Bruno Mars/Drake/Maroon 5/Ke$ha/Kelly Clarkson (They actually even listed specific examples and told us WHY they were trash! How arbitrary they were is besides the point! Yay!), not having dirty, unforgivable pre-marital sex as a teenager because it could ruin your life, to spreading the news to all your friends, to not being friends with those who don't believe and are bad influences (Because you should spread the news to them without being friends with them anymore, apparently), to not living as a Christian outside of Church. This one interested me. The pastor spoke about how God knows how you are living, and that coming to Church every Sunday and praying and crying your heart out aren't good enough. Then a girl I know from school came up and gave us pretty much exactly the same spill, and of course, everyone started clapping, because when it comes from someone so young it just means so, so much more. My mom smiled and clapped loudly, mindlessly eating up what was said as she was expected to. My dad... just sat there. Expressionless. It was an interesting moment, to say the least. Then they started singing songs and he stood up and started singing or whatever it is they do like normal.

As soon as we left, I started to observe him. In the car, we listened to the rap radio stations, complete with the women degrading and non-swearing. I asked him if we should donate some things to the needy, like one of our plasma TV's, as we don't really need one of them in every room, and he laughed at me. Church on Wednesday? Please, son.

It didn't stop there. Everywhere I went, I observed so called "Christians" living... normal lives. The girl I mentioned before who went up and preached today? She's one of my friend's girlfriends. He taps that ass at least three times a week. I wonder if she asks for forgiveness after he rolls off of her every night.

Kids who are called "Youth leaders" drink, do drugs, listen to "Trash" music, and attend parties instead of reading their bible, praying to God, and spreading the good news.

I thought "Okay, maybe it's just kids who don't do God's will." Nope. Adults too. My dad doesn't tell his clearly non-religious friends about God. Ever. Our pictures of God, and Jesus, and of the great feast sit in the back of the attic because they are "Ugly". My parents, who were divorced (A major no-no, especially when you have kids) both have had several boyfriends/girlfriends while they were apart (Also a major no-no), and were even having pre-marital sex with them (Another no-no). Now they're together again, but not married, and they still have sex, although now it's the same as being married to them because they have kids. Yeah, I don't know.

People who clench their crosses to their chests and pray around the flagpole at school for the family of a friend who got hit by a car and is getting surgery on their leg completely ignore the kids in the other car, one of which had a sharp section of the door stab into their lower intestine, another who's face slammed through the glass and now needs reconstructive surgery, and two more in the backseat, who are now dead. They refuse to talk to Kid X because he has Y wrong with him. They talk back to their teachers, bosses, and police officers, steal, abuse their families, and hire prostitutes, but it doesn't matter, because no sin is unforgivable except not accepting God, because Jesus died for us. Yes, Jesus dying is the reason I can watch porn and not burn for eternity for it. Unless I forget to apologize, even though all these people committing all these sins don't do it. A theist told me their apologies were "Implied". I asked him why mine couldn't be, too. He said it's because I hadn't accepted Jesus as my lord and savior and hadn't been baptized. I told him I had. He said you have to change your lifestyle AFTER you do all those things. I asked him why he hadn't. He said all he needed was forgiveness for those sins. I asked him why he never asked for it then. He said his apologies were implied. Does he think he's better than me for some reason and that God gives him special rights? Or does he, in the back of his head, not really believe in God at all?

People do whatever they want, whenever they want, and most often don't give God a second thought. He's the "Great One", but only when it's convenient. Or is it? Do they really believe or is it all a show? Do they think "Oh God, you are just so good to me and I love you" all day like they're supposed to, or do they just go on about their lives, Jesus goggles in their back pockets for emergencies?

And I'm the one who is an immoral monster when they look at my ass and see I've lost my glasses.
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06-05-2012, 09:46 PM
RE: Closet Atheism
You're in the typical religious American family.
Just sit back and enjoy the ride.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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06-05-2012, 11:24 PM
RE: Closet Atheism
(06-05-2012 09:46 PM)Thomas Wrote:  You're in the typical religious American family.
Just sit back and enjoy the ride.
Its called hypocrisy.

And there is good evidence that, statistically speaking, the typical religious American family may be the most dysfunctional in the developed world because of their religiosity.
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06-05-2012, 11:33 PM
RE: Closet Atheism
We atheists understand that holding a belief doesn't physically change you in any way. Christians sin. Even the Church will admit that, but at times they also try to dismiss it. Many of them claim that we atheists must not believe in God because we want to live in rebellion to God, as if they don't realize that you can still do that as a Christian.

Christians point to the changes made by the Holy Spirit by saying that Christians don't do this, this, and this (to name any random Christian tenets), but of course some Christians do this, this, and even this, but even if there was a difference in the lives of Christians it would be because they're actually trying to live according to Christian ideals. Is it surprising that Muslims live in accordance with the Q'uran? Of course not; that's what they're striving to do. And many Muslims break the Q'uran's commandments, too, because that's a perfectly normal and human thing to do.

If you lost your God glasses, that's great! Welcome to atheism. If not, that's okay, too. There's no atheist hell, and we believe that when you die you'll cease to exist no matter what you believed. I think atheism makes life better, but that's more of an opinion than fact. In any case, it's beneficial to see behind the veil and know that the great Oz is really just some guy pretending to be great and powerful. That's something that your friends haven't yet had the chance to see.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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06-05-2012, 11:42 PM
RE: Closet Atheism
I think they do believe but they just don't care so strongly. Like it's just another thing that they were brought up always believing so never really give it any thought. So they'll go to church every week and say a prayer now and then but that's all it is. They just see it as just another thing, they don't care they just accept and deal with it.

I think this is how most Americans are. Its like a social norm thing that nobody ever really talks about they just deal with it. And whenever the conversation comes up because of it's complexity and the fact it always ends in argument they ignore the topic and so religion just continues to carry on silently in the background.

My advice, tell your parents you are atheist and don't want to go to church. But I like to cause shit so that may not be the best approach. It depends how religious your folks are, you Dad probably couldn't care less but your mother sounds like she would be worried. So in that case it's probably best just to shut up and deal with it. Then when you leave home just forget about religion and live your life as the atheist you are.

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06-05-2012, 11:59 PM (This post was last modified: 07-05-2012 12:03 AM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Closet Atheism
(06-05-2012 11:33 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  We atheists understand that holding a belief doesn't physically change you in any way. Christians sin. Even the Church will admit that, but at times they also try to dismiss it. Many of them claim that we atheists must not believe in God because we want to live in rebellion to God, as if they don't realize that you can still do that as a Christian.

Christians point to the changes made by the Holy Spirit by saying that Christians don't do this, this, and this (to name any random Christian tenets), but of course some Christians do this, this, and even this, but even if there was a difference in the lives of Christians it would be because they're actually trying to live according to Christian ideals. Is it surprising that Muslims live in accordance with the Q'uran? Of course not; that's what they're striving to do. And many Muslims break the Q'uran's commandments, too, because that's a perfectly normal and human thing to do.

If you lost your God glasses, that's great! Welcome to atheism. If not, that's okay, too. There's no atheist hell, and we believe that when you die you'll cease to exist no matter what you believed. I think atheism makes life better, but that's more of an opinion than fact. In any case, it's beneficial to see behind the veil and know that the great Oz is really just some guy pretending to be great and powerful. That's something that your friends haven't yet had the chance to see.
Hey Starcrash, re " I think atheism makes life better, but that's more of an opinion than fact."

Have a look at the evidence here... http://www.markfulton.org/christianity-a...al-society

You may be more right than you realise! Regards, Mark
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07-05-2012, 02:41 AM
RE: Closet Atheism
Related to the OP, I see a lot of parallel thoughts between Christianity and Atheism:

One example is a newbie’s reaction can be:
Atheist: There is no God, we can do what we want !
Christian: We are freed from sin, we can do what we want !

Atheist-rationalist/ humanist will not agree.
St. Paul does not agree as well, as he expounded on Romans Chapter 6.
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07-05-2012, 04:31 AM
RE: Closet Atheism
(06-05-2012 11:59 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(06-05-2012 11:33 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  We atheists understand that holding a belief doesn't physically change you in any way. Christians sin. Even the Church will admit that, but at times they also try to dismiss it. Many of them claim that we atheists must not believe in God because we want to live in rebellion to God, as if they don't realize that you can still do that as a Christian.

Christians point to the changes made by the Holy Spirit by saying that Christians don't do this, this, and this (to name any random Christian tenets), but of course some Christians do this, this, and even this, but even if there was a difference in the lives of Christians it would be because they're actually trying to live according to Christian ideals. Is it surprising that Muslims live in accordance with the Q'uran? Of course not; that's what they're striving to do. And many Muslims break the Q'uran's commandments, too, because that's a perfectly normal and human thing to do.

If you lost your God glasses, that's great! Welcome to atheism. If not, that's okay, too. There's no atheist hell, and we believe that when you die you'll cease to exist no matter what you believed. I think atheism makes life better, but that's more of an opinion than fact. In any case, it's beneficial to see behind the veil and know that the great Oz is really just some guy pretending to be great and powerful. That's something that your friends haven't yet had the chance to see.
Hey Starcrash, re " I think atheism makes life better, but that's more of an opinion than fact."

Have a look at the evidence here... http://www.markfulton.org/christianity-a...al-society

You may be more right than you realise! Regards, Mark
Mark, I hate how much you prize your bias above rationality. The question "is one belief better than another" is opinion. It has to be an opinion. You can choose what you value subjectively and then rate it objectively, but that first part of picking what you value isn't based on fact. Now of course you may say "it's better in every way!" but that isn't opinion or fact, but rather non-truth. For one example, maybe you value having right and wrong being "easy" and laid out for you so you don't have to see things in shades of gray or on a case-by-case basis. In this case, Christianity would be "better". But to compare the two beliefs, you still have to decide what scales you're going to weigh them on.

In your attempts to persuade me you're little different from a fundie. Slow down and think about what you're saying before you throw it on here. There's no need to prove that atheism is without-a-doubt always right and fundamentally can't be wrong or inferior in any way, shape, or form. You can still be right without being absolutely right. Just chillax, man.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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07-05-2012, 12:39 PM
RE: Closet Atheism
I'm going to have to go with rational belief in the physical world superior to faith belief in the spiritual work, especially when the rules of the faith are given by individuals who seek power over the people.
Rational people are often wrong, but we correct when we screw up (most of the time).
Religion says that we can't be wrong because god is never wrong and we follow god.

Also, Christians do believe that being saved does physically change you. The homosexual is turned heterosexual - instantly.
The excuse when this doesn't quite work out is that the person was really not saved, because if they were...
This is as rational as throwing a woman accused of witchcraft in the river. If she doesn't drown then she's a witch and we'll burn her at the stake. That's reasonable, right? Can't question the gospel and the asshole preacher who's interpreting it.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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