Collateral Damage
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
19-07-2012, 09:28 PM
Collateral Damage
I've been reading, thinking, and contemplating more than ever recently, and I will continue. I am becoming more anti-theistic by the day and see the negative consequences religion has on society. A lot of this comes from religious fundamentalism. If we could eradicate fundamentalism, the world will be a better place. However, belief period provides shelter to fundamentalism (as God was not a moderate), so I think that, although it is painful to do so, religion in even the nicest people must be cut down considerably. Besides the fact that it's completely false, it's harmful, breeds ignorance (I don't care how nice you are, denying evolution is unacceptable), and again shelters more extreme versions of belief.

And so, I have many Christian friends. I've already been somewhat vocal of my stance on religion (although I didn't project anti-theism due to avoiding conflict and the fact that I was not as anti-theist as I am now), but if someone asks, I want to honestly reply that "Religion is poison, and although I respect all of you, your beliefs are not receiving respect from me in the slightest, although I respect your right to believe" (which gets the job done, but possibly a bit harsher than I would like, although it is the truth.) I want to say that religion must be eradicated, to remove extremism and reduce the willful ignorance found too often in a twenty-first century society. I want to remove the false notion that religious beliefs must be protected from all kinds of negative comment or speculation, and show that religious views area as open to debate as anything else (for if they are absolute truth, debating over them should only reveal that truth, and how is that negative?) I want to establish that the blood of God is false knowledge, the breath of God is ignorance, the mind of God is oppression, bigotry, and contradiction, and the beating heart of God is deceit, and that mankind has constructed a sword in the form of a pen dipped in reason, sharp enough to eliminate mankind's biggest obstacle to an accepting, functional society worthy of pride, removed from the divisive nature of superstition.

And so, the "collateral damage". The war on extremism and ignorance disrupts the lives of so many good religious people (founded on the exact same false knowledge, ultimately, that fudged their way to the weak position of fudgy religious moderation to somehow reconcile between the will to believe and the will to reason). If I had the choice (although people would disagree,) I would actually like to have their beliefs be true; we live in a world, where there is a just, loving God, who cares for each one of us and will grant us eternal life and happiness (and since they've disposed of much of the reasoning of the Bible, that the Bible would be considered as not the true word of God at all). You may consider this "an oppressive dictatorship" and what not, but personally, I'm taking eternal happiness where I can find it. No human ideal of the afterlife will convince me otherwise, regardless of the "dictatorship" idea. And no, you won't get bored either, because that would be a contradiction. However, considering the position to be entirely false, I have no reason to believe, and therefore must dispose of the entire notion.

Well, I might just be rambling at this point, but what I want to ask is the extent to which this collateral damage must occur. Despite the fact that religion is inherently false, I don't want my Christian friends (Muslim friends, FSM friends, anyone who isn't a total nut) to be excessively hurt, have their lives collapse (oh, the atheist coming out stories...), have their entire worldview philosophy flipped, due to extremism and ignorance. I would love to make a compelling argument to all of them, have them contemplate, let them hear the dangers of religion, realize that there is a life without God, that the chains can be taken off without (deep) scars, but simply, I cannot conceive a way to do this. And besides my small corner of friends, all the nice religious people out there. People who devote their entire lives to helping others, even if it is through mythology, the ones that give religion some form of a leg to stand on for morality (well, at least the horrendous Judeo-Christian religions. The Jains, some Buddhists, etc. are very moral, as far as I've heard.) What can there be done? Obviously, society, considering its explosive technological growth, cannot survive much longer with radicals at hand. With a more unified Earth (which will take years and years), society can resolve its problems without worry of meaningless superstition, and the wrath of eternal punishment for deeds we have been inherently compelled to do, ironically by the punisher himself.

Well, hopefully this has made some sort of sense. I've been thinking a lot lately and feel the need to see what other opinions are on the matter. Maybe there is something fundamentally wrong with my position, or a silver lining I have not seen, or something else that has slipped my mind. Getting my thoughts down into writing allows me to collect them, and so at the very least I have gained something in that respect. Thoughts? Sorry for the long post by the way.

"Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned" - Anonymous
I am glad to live where there is no God, for I am moral, and mortal; I do not wish to worship He who crafts an immoral immortality.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like nsguy1350's post
20-07-2012, 12:05 AM (This post was last modified: 20-07-2012 12:12 AM by Vosur.)
RE: Collateral Damage
(19-07-2012 09:28 PM)nsguy1350 Wrote:  I want to establish that the blood of God is false knowledge, the breath of God is ignorance, the mind of God is oppression, bigotry, and contradiction, and the beating heart of God is deceit, and that mankind has constructed a sword in the form of a pen dipped in reason, sharp enough to eliminate mankind's biggest obstacle to an accepting, functional society worthy of pride, removed from the divisive nature of superstition.
The metaphors used in that part were spot-on.

Thanks for taking the time to write such a well-written post for I have enjoyed reading it a lot. Thumbsup

I'm not an anti-theist myself, but I do share your opinion for the most part. I agree that religion should go extinct, but I'm not going to play an active part in this process because fundamentalists tend to be immune against reasoning and compelling arguments and react rather agressive if their beliefs are challenged.

[Image: 7oDSbD4.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
20-07-2012, 06:12 AM
RE: Collateral Damage
Well said, and just to think it wasn’t so long ago you would have been tortured and killed for speaking out against a christian god, and you still can face the death penalty if you speak out against the muslim one.
Oh the irony, most hate us for what we are and yet most of us just want them to listen to reason.
We will read and learn and happily debate our point, yet they can’t or won’t tolerate us but will harp on about how their brand is all about peace, love and forgiveness?
And you better believe in an all loving god or we’ll kill you. End of conversation.

Here you are trying to lessen the blow of a huge paradigm shift and you, just a godless heathen?
Why if you where a man of god you would have the moral fortitude and patience to sit and calmly explain why they needed to be burnt to death.

It is the fear of death that keeps this myth alive.
And it is this fear of death that scares people so much they are willing to give up their lives to trust in a possibility of something more.
“I never told my wife/husband/mother I loved them and now it’s too late, but I’ll see them again in heaven.”
Well you’re half right, it is too late. If you love someone then tell them, you have one shot at life don’t fuck about with it.
I tell my wife all the time I love her, one day it’ll be the last time I can and I don’t know when that will be.
I could be 85 and have a blood clot hit my brain, it could be a truck changing lanes tomorrow morning and I have less than 9 hours to live.
“I miss them so much, but I’ll see them again.”
No you won’t, the pain at their passing is because of the joy you had while they where here that is now, never to be felt with them again.
That’s one of the balances of nature. For every action…
People need to be able to take solace in knowing someone that they cared for and who cared back. Knowing you only have one opportunity to do this should make people a little nicer to each other.
“But what happens when you die?”
This is a question that needs to be addressed when still a child, as harsh as it is we have seen how the lie escalates way out of hand.
Even if it’s wrong, it would be much better than to be told that it’s the end, not that all the bad things you have done will be forgiven or if not you cook forever.

Personally I prefer my version of death.
You die.

A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything. Friedrich Nietzsche
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Karl's post
20-07-2012, 03:59 PM
Big Grin RE: Collateral Damage
(20-07-2012 12:05 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(19-07-2012 09:28 PM)nsguy1350 Wrote:  I want to establish that the blood of God is false knowledge, the breath of God is ignorance, the mind of God is oppression, bigotry, and contradiction, and the beating heart of God is deceit, and that mankind has constructed a sword in the form of a pen dipped in reason, sharp enough to eliminate mankind's biggest obstacle to an accepting, functional society worthy of pride, removed from the divisive nature of superstition.
The metaphors used in that part were spot-on.

Thanks for taking the time to write such a well-written post for I have enjoyed reading it a lot. Thumbsup

I'm not an anti-theist myself, but I do share your opinion for the most part. I agree that religion should go extinct, but I'm not going to play an active part in this process because fundamentalists tend to be immune against reasoning and compelling arguments and react rather agressive if their beliefs are challenged.
Hah, thanks. I was thinking earlier yesterday, and after reading a chapter in Hitchen's book I started thinking about writing my own thoughts down again. Then, I thought of the string of metaphors, and wondered if I ever wrote, if it might be useful to include as a powerful statement. Now that I have approval for someone, maybe it's a keeper. Big Grin

And Karl, you are correct. The lonely nature of human life leads us to a form of ego-stroking in eternal reward, and eventually you develop the complexities of religion. Fear of death is a major part of that.

"Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned" - Anonymous
I am glad to live where there is no God, for I am moral, and mortal; I do not wish to worship He who crafts an immoral immortality.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: