College sucks!
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09-05-2016, 05:20 AM
RE: College sucks!
(09-05-2016 01:14 AM)Tamiptump Wrote:  I guess these colleges try to weed out people like me, that's why we hit roadblocks on every entryway into these institutions. If its not our past faults causing them to deny us admission, its the price of tuition.

Sounds like you need a longer time line, if it has to be William and Mary or nothing. Move to Virginia, get a job of some kind, and establish residency so that you can get into a community college and pay in-state rates. In the meantime, use the vast and plentiful free resources of the library and the internet to pursue knowledge.

While you're working or in community college, try taking extension courses at William and Mary. If they're anything like the Harvard extension courses, they'll be educational, challenging, not too expensive, and filled with interesting people. They won't count on a transcript, but they will fulfill your goal of gaining an education. If you decide to stay in Tennessee, Vanderbilt probably has extension courses, too.

In my opinion, you are overestimating the difference in quality of education, contacts, and students at elite and average universities. I attended an elite university for undergrad (although I dropped out)--and there were plenty of people there for the name more than for the education. I went to a slightly less elite (but top 20 for my field) university for grad school where the students seemed just as smart, the classes were just as hard as at the elite university, and in my field the students were very focused on getting an education.

My little brother went to William and Mary. He dropped out after a couple of years, but eventually got a degree and an MBA out in California; he has been quite successful despite not having the W&M BA on his resume and despite not finishing his bachelors until his late 20s and his MBA in his 30s.
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09-05-2016, 05:36 AM
RE: College sucks!
(08-05-2016 09:44 PM)Tamiptump Wrote:  I'm 25 years old and am trying to get myself back in school and make something of myself. I was a terrible student the first time around and failed out of my first college. I spent three years there and never made it beyond freshman status even. I used to care less about education and was very stupid and arrogant. When I became an atheist I started valuing education and enlightenment and wanted to go on to seek the highest education I could.

The thing I've come to realize is that when you're an older student who didn't have such a good experience the first time around, the best you're going to get is a community college or crappy state university education. The serious schools will not even entertain the idea of you. It's like when fail and make this mistake colleges are instantly like "LOSER, WORTHLESS, INCOMPETENT, NO YOU CAN'T CAN'T CAN'T!!!!!!!!!!!" Any effort to redeem yourself is going to cost you loads of time and money that you will just never have.

I've been looking around at top schools which I might be able to work my way towards gaining admission to. I'm from Tennessee, so Vanderbilt is like our Harvard or Yale. I know they wouldn't touch me with a Jupiter-sized object so I looked elsewhere. I found the College of William and Mary, the very prestigious and historic state-university that is among the rank of "public ivies". I was instantly excited about it. It had my name all over it and seemed like the perfect option for me. It turns out that it has a partnership with 23 community colleges in the state of Virginia that have paths to guaranteed admission to W&M upon completion and these CCs are open-enrollment. I thought it too good to be true.

The sad part is, while the admission aspect of it is NOT too good to be true, the cost of it is the catch. It's not that any of these CCs are any more expensive than the one I'm going to now, it's just that I'm out-of-state, and out-of-state tuition is just ruthlessly expensive. They literally make it it an act of Yahweh to establish residence so there is no way I will get to benefit from in-state tuition. That pretty much ends my hopes of it.

The college system does not cater to older, non-traditional people like me. It is meant for the little snot-nosed brats coming out of high school still getting their asses wiped by mommy and daddy. They will give them scholarships, housing, and allow them to partake in sports, clubs, and all those other things. People like me better be thankful we're even allowed to step our filthy, undesirable on campus and had better not ask for anything more. That's how these college policies feel to people like me. It's elitist and unfair.

I may be a little whinny bitch who doesn't understand what he's talking about and only sees one side to this matter. If so, please advise. Otherwise, this was just a rant. Any conversation on the matter wold be appreciated.

That's a shitty attitude. It can be said that higher education is way too expensive sure. But the truth remains a more educated society, no matter where you end up is still a more stable society.

I want even our lowest paid in society to have the highest education they can have. It is never wrong to have an education. If you want to blame anyone, blame the right and the rich who sell sweat shop bullshit utopias to excuse corporate welfare.

Blame corporate welfare. Blame our pay gap. But do not shit on the idea of education itself.

I am tired of the bullshit term "hard work". If work was always supposed to be hard then why use the internet? Why not send our communications on the Pony Express?

There is nothing wrong with the idea of productivity. But the "hard work" as sold by the economic right and 1% has nothing to do with creating worker stability. It is designed to excuse replicate the sweat shop labor of China and India. Nothing the west should aspire to compete with at all.

And the truth is most people do NOT end up with jobs they love. Most people end up having jobs so they can pay their bills. Yes you can try to get a job you love, and nobody should stop you from trying. But I am sick of the top and the right brainwashing society into chasing utopias that do not exist. There is nothing wrong with having and education, and livable wages and a life outside your job.

A well rested work force is a more productive work force. What we have now is is a global race to the bottom.

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09-05-2016, 05:40 AM
RE: College sucks!
(09-05-2016 01:14 AM)Tamiptump Wrote:  I guess these colleges try to weed out people like me, that's why we hit roadblocks on every entryway into these institutions. If its not our past faults causing them to deny us admission, its the price of tuition.

Maintaining such a reputation is as much about politics as education quality. Every student they accept represents a potential risk to their reputation if they don't fit into a certain mold.

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09-05-2016, 06:39 PM
RE: College sucks!
I must offer a few caveats and hedge my language on some things I've said here. Firstly, you have to take things I say like "crappy state colleges" with a grain of salt. I don't really think of these colleges as "crappy" necessarily. They are likely perfectly adequate schools, but I have explained that the prestige of the name of the school matters to me for reasons I don't feel admonished to explain here. That's something you might as well not venture to argue with me about because I am not going to change my opinion about it. It is also not just about the prestigious name of the school, but the experience of going to a top tier university. The University of Tennessee at Knoxville for example is notorious for being a party school where people care more about the sports program than academics. I don't want to go to a school like that, regardless if the academics are quality or not. That's just my opinion, arbitrary and backwards as it may be. I'm not knocking the people who go there, but its just not where I want to tell people I went to school at. These are the schools I deem to be "crappy state universities". There is no prestige to their name or academics, they are the colleges people settle for, not aspire to attend. They are the places people mostly go to in order to get a piece of paper in order to get a job, not to pursue their intellect or bask in a world-class education.

William and Mary, though state-funded, is not one of these crappy state universities. It is a prestigious school, the likes of which a degree from (with good standing) can guarantee a person the prospect of attending a top private university for graduate school.

This is something I want to do during my time here on Earth. Absolutely nothing and no one is going to reason me out of wanting this. No stories about how one can be successful without a degree, or how the college one attends doesn't matter will make a dent in my thinking on this. These people just don't (and probably couldn't) understand my mind and my reasons on this. The University of Tennessee, out of all the namesake state universities in this country is probably one of the worst of all. I just don't want to go there. I don't care how cheap or convenient it is. That is not a factor in my reasons for choosing the schools I desire to attend even in the slightest sense.

I know I seem deluded and arrogant. But these are my inner thoughts on the matter. These are my personal preferences.
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09-05-2016, 06:56 PM
RE: College sucks!
I think that I see your problem:

Quote:The college system does not cater to older, non-traditional people like me. It is meant for the little snot-nosed brats... It's elitist and unfair.
Quote:My concern is to go to an elite school and get and elite education. That's it.

I'll assume that you can spot the contradiction.

Quote:The name of the college matters to me. You might as well not try to argue with me on this because I my beliefs are dogmatic and unwavering on this.

I believe that you have identified the source of your misery.

Quote:Its the only way people will take me seriously. I will still be the stupid, unlikable moron in their eyes if I graduate from a crappy state school.

And here's the real problem. You don't want the education, you want the acceptance. Now that I can understand. Here's what you need to do:

(1) Check to make sure that you don't already have it. You're at exactly the right age to be as stupid as I was about that. Don't mistake your parents' expectations for their love and approval. Talk to them. Face to face and in person. It's going to be hard but it's a vital first step. Unless I'm badly mistaken it will pay off and you can ignore the rest of my ramblings.

(2)
Fuck them and the inbred nag they rode in on

Any parent who can't love their child because they didn't get into an ivy league school should be sterilized for the good of the species. It may be a damned hard lesson for you but you may be luckless enough to have utter bastards for parents. Hang around here and you'll find that you're in good company. A few of our members have suffered unspeakably at the hands of their familes for no geater transgression than not believing in their imaginary friend.

It's my sincerest hope that this is not the case. Nobody deserves that.

(3) Go to state for a year. Get the basic math and programming skills that you'll need for a Comp Sci degree. Work your balls off. This is how you prove to the big name schools that you have what it takes. If you're smart you'll finish your undergrad here. It'll be of more use. If not then...

(4) Apply to your ivy league school if you must. Get the rest of your degree there. It's a waste in my unhumble opinion but if that's what you need then so be it. Work like a bastard and get your degree with solid grades and references. I fear that you are in for a rude awakening regarding the image vs. the substance of a prestigious school's academic merits but it's your choice.

(5) Apply to CalTech or MIT for your graduate work. Nobody gives a flying fuck about a Comp Sci PhD from an ivy league school. These are the places with the academic prestige. These are the universities that can pick and choose from the nation's brightest rather than the nation's most pampered. They're unlikely to be impressed by a diploma from an ivy league school. They know better. You'll need solid grades, good references and a few contacts but hard work in your undergrad will get you that.

Quote:I also see it as necessary to redeem myself from a lifetime of utter stupidity.

Don't be absurd. You're 25, you haven't had a lifetime of anything yet. You have an exciting and wonderful career of unalloyed idiocy yet to come. Welcome to the species.

Quote:I consider suicide every day.

On the bright side, every day you consider suicide is one more day that you draw breath.

My brother never contemplated suicide. Paranoid schizophrenia drove him mad and one night he simply walked out into a blizzard so that he wouldn't spend another night tormented by demons.

Feel free to drop me a note if you need any more of my sage advise.

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09-05-2016, 07:09 PM
RE: College sucks!
(08-05-2016 11:41 PM)Tamiptump Wrote:  
(08-05-2016 11:36 PM)Banjo Wrote:  I left school, aged 8. I attempted to return in my teens to a private school and paid all my own fees. The school had no rules. Not one.

I got asked quietly to leave.

I then went on to have a marvellous life as a musician and martial artist.

My brother, highly intelligent, never finished his schooling either. He now runs a production company worldwide and is currently working in LA.

My point is that schooling is not that important. What is important is drive and determination and a goal. Once you figure out what you want to do, do it.

Good luck.
I will repeat this one more time. I don't give a fuck about jobs or success in the work force. I know that will happen anyway. My purpose for going to college is the education itself. I'm NOT going to college to get a degree so I can get a job. I can get a job regardless of degree. My concern is to go to an elite school and get and elite education. That's it.

If you want an education, you should go to a university in or near a cosmopolitan city.

Personally, I'd suggest McGill University in Montreal. It is one of the top universities in the world.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-05-2016, 07:11 PM
RE: College sucks!
(09-05-2016 06:39 PM)Tamiptump Wrote:  I must offer a few caveats and hedge my language on some things I've said here. Firstly, you have to take things I say like "crappy state colleges" with a grain of salt. I don't really think of these colleges as "crappy" necessarily. They are likely perfectly adequate schools, but I have explained that the prestige of the name of the school matters to me for reasons I don't feel admonished to explain here. That's something you might as well not venture to argue with me about because I am not going to change my opinion about it. It is also not just about the prestigious name of the school, but the experience of going to a top tier university. The University of Tennessee at Knoxville for example is notorious for being a party school where people care more about the sports program than academics. I don't want to go to a school like that, regardless if the academics are quality or not. That's just my opinion, arbitrary and backwards as it may be. I'm not knocking the people who go there, but its just not where I want to tell people I went to school at. These are the schools I deem to be "crappy state universities". There is no prestige to their name or academics, they are the colleges people settle for, not aspire to attend. They are the places people mostly go to in order to get a piece of paper in order to get a job, not to pursue their intellect or bask in a world-class education.

William and Mary, though state-funded, is not one of these crappy state universities. It is a prestigious school, the likes of which a degree from (with good standing) can guarantee a person the prospect of attending a top private university for graduate school.

This is something I want to do during my time here on Earth. Absolutely nothing and no one is going to reason me out of wanting this. No stories about how one can be successful without a degree, or how the college one attends doesn't matter will make a dent in my thinking on this. These people just don't (and probably couldn't) understand my mind and my reasons on this. The University of Tennessee, out of all the namesake state universities in this country is probably one of the worst of all. I just don't want to go there. I don't care how cheap or convenient it is. That is not a factor in my reasons for choosing the schools I desire to attend even in the slightest sense.

I know I seem deluded and arrogant. But these are my inner thoughts on the matter. These are my personal preferences.

I want to respond, but I want a little more information so I can make my reply more relevant to your situation. Is it safe for me to assume that your family is paying for your education and that none of the money spent on your tuition and living expenses will be coming out of your inheritance or trust fund?
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09-05-2016, 07:22 PM
RE: College sucks!
My parents don't hold me to any such standard. This is purely a burden I choose to bestow upon myself. I want this for myself. My desire to do this may be purely arbitrary, but whatever.

The top schools will never accept me where I'm from.

Getting admission to W&M is not the tough part, they offer guaranteed admission from the VCCS system. It's the cost that makes it unfeasible. But even that is not enough to make me back down necessarily.

Btw, I just finished a semester at a Tennessee CC. This was my first semester back to school in four years so it was my first action towards getting back into school and working towards my education. I made 3 As and 2 Bs this semester. I learned of this program with W&M after I had enrolled here. I really want to do this so I am trying to figure out how I can make it financially feasible.

I still think the W&M thing might be achievable. I just need to figure out what kind of aid I would possibly qualify for. There just seems to be roadblocks everywhere. Everything is qualified for certain people and there is always something with every type of scholarship or form of aid that disqualifies me. Most of it reserved for residents of the state, and people like me can't take advantage of anything. If its not for being out of state, its something else like being too old or poor academic history. One way or another they do their very best to keep people like me out.
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09-05-2016, 07:28 PM
RE: College sucks!
(09-05-2016 07:11 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(09-05-2016 06:39 PM)Tamiptump Wrote:  I must offer a few caveats and hedge my language on some things I've said here. Firstly, you have to take things I say like "crappy state colleges" with a grain of salt. I don't really think of these colleges as "crappy" necessarily. They are likely perfectly adequate schools, but I have explained that the prestige of the name of the school matters to me for reasons I don't feel admonished to explain here. That's something you might as well not venture to argue with me about because I am not going to change my opinion about it. It is also not just about the prestigious name of the school, but the experience of going to a top tier university. The University of Tennessee at Knoxville for example is notorious for being a party school where people care more about the sports program than academics. I don't want to go to a school like that, regardless if the academics are quality or not. That's just my opinion, arbitrary and backwards as it may be. I'm not knocking the people who go there, but its just not where I want to tell people I went to school at. These are the schools I deem to be "crappy state universities". There is no prestige to their name or academics, they are the colleges people settle for, not aspire to attend. They are the places people mostly go to in order to get a piece of paper in order to get a job, not to pursue their intellect or bask in a world-class education.

William and Mary, though state-funded, is not one of these crappy state universities. It is a prestigious school, the likes of which a degree from (with good standing) can guarantee a person the prospect of attending a top private university for graduate school.

This is something I want to do during my time here on Earth. Absolutely nothing and no one is going to reason me out of wanting this. No stories about how one can be successful without a degree, or how the college one attends doesn't matter will make a dent in my thinking on this. These people just don't (and probably couldn't) understand my mind and my reasons on this. The University of Tennessee, out of all the namesake state universities in this country is probably one of the worst of all. I just don't want to go there. I don't care how cheap or convenient it is. That is not a factor in my reasons for choosing the schools I desire to attend even in the slightest sense.

I know I seem deluded and arrogant. But these are my inner thoughts on the matter. These are my personal preferences.

I want to respond, but I want a little more information so I can make my reply more relevant to your situation. Is it safe for me to assume that your family is paying for your education and that none of the money spent on your tuition and living expenses will be coming out of your inheritance or trust fund?

They're paying for it right now, but I intend to fund the majority, if not all of it, when I go off to my chosen top school, whether its through a mixture of financial aid/grants/loans and my own money, or purely the aid I qualify for. I will pay for it some way.

I'm from the rural south. We don't don't do trust funds or shit like that down here. We'er a hokey bunch. We play fast and loose with our money. Lol
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09-05-2016, 07:49 PM
RE: College sucks!
(09-05-2016 06:39 PM)Tamiptump Wrote:  the prestige of the name of the school matters to me for reasons I don't feel admonished to explain here.

Hard to help you if you won't explain.

This is the Personal Issues and Support section. In case you didn't catch the sign by the door nobody here will belittle you for anything you say. Anybody fool enough to do so suffers The Wrath of Mod.

Have a browse through some of the threads below if you're concerned.

If that isn't sufficient then feel free to drop somebody that you trust a note in private.

Quote:Firstly, you have to take things I say like "crappy state colleges" with a grain of salt.

It's a good thing I'm a geologist with a 5 pound grain of solid halite in the next room. Wink I both studied and taught at state schools. As it happens I'm in a position to tell you that you're badly mistaken about the quality of instruction that you're likely to receive there.

You're right, there's going to be a party crowd that's more interested in getting blitzed and getting laid than doing anything serious. You seem to be under the misapprehension that you won't find them in your big name schools. They're a little like lice in that they get everywhere. Our favorite C-student ex-president partied it up so hard at Yale that his dad could barely buy him a passing grade.

Ignore them. The one thing they're very good at is flunking out. They won't be around long and you'll hardly notice them when they are since they rarely bother to attend class.

As to academics, where do you think you'll get a better education? The schools that are about the name and the image that have an inordinately high proportion of entitled little brats whose rich parents dumped them there to get a degree of some sort or other? Or will it be the school that has to be about actual substance because the students that aren't intent on partying themselves blind absolutely have to make it?

The students at state who are serious are going to be working like the devil. They'll be doing that because they don't have a fallback other than waiting tables for the rest of their lives and this will be their only shot. If you want serious academics this is your peer group.

Quote:They are the places people mostly go to in order to get a piece of paper in order to get a job, not to pursue their intellect or bask in a world-class education.

My grandfather:
- was kicked out of school in grade 8 for assaulting the principle (SOB had it coming).
- went back and finished
- Graduated from Brown
- Taught at U of Maine

World class education has nothing to do with elitism. Typically the opposite is true.

Quote:This is something I want to do during my time here on Earth. Absolutely nothing and no one is going to reason me out of wanting this.

Complete shot in the dark here but would the people who told you that you need their elite imaginary friend to be happy in this world and the next also be the ones that told you that you need an elite college degree to be worthy?

It's pretty obvious that you aren't happy now and I'm having a hard time seeing how varnishing your sorrows with elitism is going to help you. I've never tried it though so I could be dead wrong.

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