Comey fired
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08-06-2017, 01:22 PM
RE: Comey fired
(08-06-2017 12:48 PM)mordant Wrote:  
(08-06-2017 11:40 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Hilarious.

2,100 classified government emails on Hillary's server = No charges.

"I hope you can let Flynn go" = Impeachment and obstruction of justice.

Unless they find evidence that Trump himself colluded with the Russians, this isn't going anywhere.
False equivalency.

Hillary did not steal or disseminate those emails (most of which weren't classified), she simply mishandled them.

"I hope you can let Flynn go" on the other hand ... in what way is it NOT obstruction of justice? And what argument can you make against acting other than the schoolyard claim that "she did it too" which, as I point out above, isn't even accurate here?

The point is, Comey used the "no reasonable person" excuse for Hillary. She mishandled classified material, which is in fact a crime. But Comey believed they couldn't get a jury to convict. He laid out a case, point by point, of all of the illegal things in her case and then said no charges. Keep in mind that she was secretary of state at the time of the mishandling. Now Trump allegedly made the statement that he hoped Comey would let it go. Trump's defense is no different than any friend would make to a cop. Can't you just let him go? He's a good guy. I hope this goes away. He didn't say "You will drop the case." He HOPES for a good outcome for his friend. No jury would convict on that one statement. What Trump hopes for is in no way an order.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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08-06-2017, 01:41 PM
RE: Comey fired
(08-06-2017 01:22 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(08-06-2017 12:48 PM)mordant Wrote:  False equivalency.

Hillary did not steal or disseminate those emails (most of which weren't classified), she simply mishandled them.

"I hope you can let Flynn go" on the other hand ... in what way is it NOT obstruction of justice? And what argument can you make against acting other than the schoolyard claim that "she did it too" which, as I point out above, isn't even accurate here?

The point is, Comey used the "no reasonable person" excuse for Hillary. She mishandled classified material, which is in fact a crime. But Comey believed they couldn't get a jury to convict. He laid out a case, point by point, of all of the illegal things in her case and then said no charges. Keep in mind that she was secretary of state at the time of the mishandling. Now Trump allegedly made the statement that he hoped Comey would let it go. Trump's defense is no different than any friend would make to a cop. Can't you just let him go? He's a good guy. I hope this goes away. He didn't say "You will drop the case." He HOPES for a good outcome for his friend. No jury would convict on that one statement. What Trump hopes for is in no way an order.

But in fairness, he wasn't speaking as a relative talking to a cop.

It would be more like the police chief telling a cop that he hopes it'll just go away. What message is that really sending the cop investigating it? Especially if later that same cop is fired.

Because trump is actually potus his words actually carry more weight than other people not in authority.


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08-06-2017, 01:45 PM
RE: Comey fired
If my boss has a conversation with me that involves my keeping my job and concludes with "I hope you will do this or that", I am going to conclude that my job depends on my doing this or that.

In Comey's case, he was fired when he didn't do what trump had "hoped for". Proof in the pudding.

Doesn't matter though, partisanship needs to fly out the window. We have an actual threat against our democracy. We need facts, and Clinton is yesterday's story. We need to concentrate on finding out what happened with Russia.

Sometimes I think you are a paid agent of some type. Facepalm

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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08-06-2017, 01:50 PM
RE: Comey fired
(08-06-2017 01:41 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(08-06-2017 01:22 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  The point is, Comey used the "no reasonable person" excuse for Hillary. She mishandled classified material, which is in fact a crime. But Comey believed they couldn't get a jury to convict. He laid out a case, point by point, of all of the illegal things in her case and then said no charges. Keep in mind that she was secretary of state at the time of the mishandling. Now Trump allegedly made the statement that he hoped Comey would let it go. Trump's defense is no different than any friend would make to a cop. Can't you just let him go? He's a good guy. I hope this goes away. He didn't say "You will drop the case." He HOPES for a good outcome for his friend. No jury would convict on that one statement. What Trump hopes for is in no way an order.

But in fairness, he wasn't speaking as a relative talking to a cop.

It would be more like the police chief telling a cop that he hopes it'll just go away. What message is that really sending the cop investigating it? Especially if later that same cop is fired.

Because trump is actually potus his words actually carry more weight than other people not in authority.

I agree with that. But I don't think Trump truly understands that. Or if he did, he didn't realize it was wrong. He never repeated his "hope" to Comey. Perhaps Jeff Sessions let him know it was improper. And as we know from Comey's testimony, Trump never asked to have the full Russian investigation ended. What I gathered was he really wanted Comey to come out and say to the American people that he wasn't under investigation. Comey refused so he was fired. I do not believe Trump fired him to stop the investigation altogether, as all evidence points otherwise.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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08-06-2017, 01:56 PM
RE: Comey fired
(08-06-2017 01:50 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(08-06-2017 01:41 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  But in fairness, he wasn't speaking as a relative talking to a cop.

It would be more like the police chief telling a cop that he hopes it'll just go away. What message is that really sending the cop investigating it? Especially if later that same cop is fired.

Because trump is actually potus his words actually carry more weight than other people not in authority.

I agree with that. But I don't think Trump truly understands that. Or if he did, he didn't realize it was wrong. He never repeated his "hope" to Comey. Perhaps Jeff Sessions let him know it was improper. And as we know from Comey's testimony, Trump never asked to have the full Russian investigation ended. What I gathered was he really wanted Comey to come out and say to the American people that he wasn't under investigation. Comey refused so he was fired. I do not believe Trump fired him to stop the investigation altogether, as all evidence points otherwise.

So, you think trump is stupid? I don't.

He is certainly not stupid enough to make his manipulations obvious by asking directly and expressing precisely what he wants. I would have been smart enough to modify my message if I were him. His message was clear and effective.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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08-06-2017, 02:07 PM
RE: Comey fired
(08-06-2017 01:56 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(08-06-2017 01:50 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I agree with that. But I don't think Trump truly understands that. Or if he did, he didn't realize it was wrong. He never repeated his "hope" to Comey. Perhaps Jeff Sessions let him know it was improper. And as we know from Comey's testimony, Trump never asked to have the full Russian investigation ended. What I gathered was he really wanted Comey to come out and say to the American people that he wasn't under investigation. Comey refused so he was fired. I do not believe Trump fired him to stop the investigation altogether, as all evidence points otherwise.

So, you think trump is stupid? I don't.

He is certainly not stupid enough to make his manipulations obvious by asking directly and expressing precisely what he wants. I would have been smart enough to modify my message if I were him. His message was clear and effective.

Perhaps. But clear enough to impeach? Doubt it. It would be damn near impossible to get 9 people on a jury to UNANIMOUSLY find a guilty verdict on obstruction let alone 2/3 of the senate to impeach.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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08-06-2017, 02:07 PM
RE: Comey fired
Watergate pales to what we're confronting now.



#sigh
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08-06-2017, 02:08 PM
RE: Comey fired
(08-06-2017 01:56 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(08-06-2017 01:50 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  I agree with that. But I don't think Trump truly understands that. Or if he did, he didn't realize it was wrong. He never repeated his "hope" to Comey. Perhaps Jeff Sessions let him know it was improper. And as we know from Comey's testimony, Trump never asked to have the full Russian investigation ended. What I gathered was he really wanted Comey to come out and say to the American people that he wasn't under investigation. Comey refused so he was fired. I do not believe Trump fired him to stop the investigation altogether, as all evidence points otherwise.

So, you think trump is stupid? I don't.

He is certainly not stupid enough to make his manipulations obvious by asking directly and expressing precisely what he wants. I would have been smart enough to modify my message if I were him. His message was clear and effective.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. LDH doesn't give him enough credit at being slippery but I also think you give him far too much credit.

I don't think or have the impression he places much thought in much he says or does.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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08-06-2017, 02:15 PM
RE: Comey fired
(08-06-2017 02:07 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(08-06-2017 01:56 PM)Dom Wrote:  So, you think trump is stupid? I don't.

He is certainly not stupid enough to make his manipulations obvious by asking directly and expressing precisely what he wants. I would have been smart enough to modify my message if I were him. His message was clear and effective.

Perhaps. But clear enough to impeach? Doubt it. It would be damn near impossible to get 9 people on a jury to UNANIMOUSLY find a guilty verdict on obstruction let alone 2/3 of the senate to impeach.

I am really not interested in impeachment.

I just want the truth at this point.

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08-06-2017, 02:20 PM
RE: Comey fired
(08-06-2017 02:08 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(08-06-2017 01:56 PM)Dom Wrote:  So, you think trump is stupid? I don't.

He is certainly not stupid enough to make his manipulations obvious by asking directly and expressing precisely what he wants. I would have been smart enough to modify my message if I were him. His message was clear and effective.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. LDH doesn't give him enough credit at being slippery but I also think you give him far too much credit.

I don't think or have the impression he places much thought in much he says or does.

If I were to give GrampasWanderedOffCampusAgain the benefit of the doubt, I'd say he has gotten away with thumbing his nose at social decency and business ethics for so long, he just assumed that he could carry them forward into the more serious and consequential world of foreign diplomacy and the more legally constrained and legally consequential world of government ethics. I'd say Grampa's about to learn better but it appears dementia has already started to set in.

#sigh
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