Comfort without God
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
08-08-2016, 03:20 PM
RE: Comfort without God
I've found comfort in family and friends, and never had any comfort with god. I used to find comfort in community but that is not what it was when growing up in a small town.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes skyking's post
08-08-2016, 04:52 PM
RE: Comfort without God
(08-08-2016 01:56 AM)Dworkin Wrote:  Someone once said, “An atheist is a person without an invisible means of support.”
Oi that seems to be an old quote heh. I think I found it dated at 1955. But anyway, nice catch.
I would like to ask what type of invisible support a theist has?
Is God the invisible support?
Because if I don't believe in God, then yes, I don't believe that he can help me with anything anyway so I don't need him either.
If invisible support is meant as a type of community feeling, where you know that a group of like-minded people has your back, there are other groups who can provided that.

(08-08-2016 01:56 AM)Dworkin Wrote:  I think it is a plain fact that many people find comfort in religion. My concern and question is about non believers: atheists and agnostics. Believers are told to go to God for comfort in their most challenged times, and churches organise all kinds of support around the core concept of caring for those lost in the world. The concept of ‘flock’ and ‘shepherd’ emphasizes this.
I agree that this is how Christians and many other religions deal with problems. But it is only because they never learnt that there are other (healthier?) ways to deal with challenging times. In my case, I had good friends who were worried about my well-being, who talked sense into me. Later I met my boyfriend who is now my husband, who has a wonderful gift of catching me when I fall. And I do the same for him so I have that in my partnership. But even without him, I would still have some friends to turn to. And as a side note, the absolute vast majority of people in my social circle are Atheists. They all do the same.

(08-08-2016 01:56 AM)Dworkin Wrote:  For the atheist, things are different. Of course, there are efforts in communities to deal with health problems, addiction, poverty, old age and loneliness etc, but these efforts are specific to the practical problem presented, I do not know of a place to go with a deeper ‘existential crisis’ in the absence of a mental health diagnosis. Maybe the secular world regards existential crisis as a mental health problem? I don’t know.
I personally don't see why it is a problem to put efforts in very specific fields. It just means that you get much better, much more specialized help. I mean think about countries that try to be secular. So a poor person will usually get some social security, a bit of pocket money, a roof over their head, maybe they are being sent to school or helped to find a job. If the same person get's sick, they go to the doctor. If the same person has a problem with addiction, they see a councellor. And if they have a existential crisis, they shall turn to friends or family.

(08-08-2016 01:56 AM)Dworkin Wrote:  When I faced an existential crisis (which still lingers) I went to a University philosophy department. This resulted in years of study, two philosophy degrees and I was none the wiser on what was concerning me most. I did meet other students who were on a similar quest to mine, but none with answers outside a religious context, which brings me back to the question at hand.
I have that crisis very regular and the problem that many people in my social circle, including my husband, do not understand my issue. In those cases I turn to the internet to find people who understand me and can give me advice. The internet really has made things easier for people with problems. I am not surprised that your philosophy degrees didn't help you to get wiser. Philosophy doesn't usually just provide you with an answer.

(08-08-2016 01:56 AM)Dworkin Wrote:  Where do we find comfort without God?
As I said, I find comfort in my circle of friends, with my husband, sometimes right here on the forum.
For a while I organized an atheist meet up here in my city. We met regularly once or twice a month. Usually we had a topic of the evening, just in case we wouldn't have something else to talk about but usually we had enough to speak. Personal issues, things we found in the news, stuff that just went through our heads, and sometimes just silly stuff. And the good things was, we grew together as friends. Nothing felt forced. Once in a while, someone would bring an addition to one of our evenings. It was just very nice and fun. A happy place really. I do plan to organize these again, once I find a bigger flat again heh.


Cheers,
Le Leela

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
- Wotsefack?! -
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Leerob's post
08-08-2016, 06:17 PM
RE: Comfort without God
I've never had an existential crisis, but one thing that gives me comfort is my own personal confidence. Mainly confidence that I can overcome struggles. If you ask me where that confidence comes from, I wouldn't be able to tell you really.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-08-2016, 06:35 PM
RE: Comfort without God
I don't understand how anyone can find comfort in a God myth, if you truly believe this being exists and he has a "plan" for you and for all of us why does he seem to take so much glee and satisfaction from watching us flail about anxiously searching for meaning? Pondering our existence and mortality? When in the end it's just a time waster for him, we'll either be good enough to spend eternity in his paradise or we're not.

All of this free will and chance is just an illusion to us, when he's really the one steering us about, we try so very hard to avoid the disasters and he's just pointing us right to it laughing as we crash into it at full speed...then when we lift ourselves out of the rubble, broken hearts and broken bones drag ourselves to a church to pray for guidance and strength to this mad man? The same one that fucked us over to begin with? No thanks!

The very thought that this being doesn't exist, that my life is my own, that I can steer it this way and that way and even if I can't avoid certain events I can still decide how I react to it..on my terms, is a comfort I truly cherish.

I'll take it any day over a sky daddy who won't leave me be, who won't ever say "Hello" to me and won't ever make his plan clear to me while he reads my thoughts and judges my every move. It's comforting to know my life is my own and all our lives are ours, we don't need to answer to anyone but each other as we share this planet, no spirits can harm us and anything anyone ever did that was truly remarkable due to faith in God was done simply with human will and hard work, it was always just us, that's a comforting thought.

[Image: sagansig_zps6vhbql6m.jpg]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like SitaSky's post
08-08-2016, 06:38 PM
RE: Comfort without God
(08-08-2016 01:56 AM)Dworkin Wrote:  Hi,

Someone once said, “An atheist is a person without an invisible means of support.”

I think it is a plain fact that many people find comfort in religion. My concern and question is about non believers: atheists and agnostics. Believers are told to go to God for comfort in their most challenged times, and churches organise all kinds of support around the core concept of caring for those lost in the world. The concept of ‘flock’ and ‘shepherd’ emphasizes this.

For the atheist, things are different. Of course, there are efforts in communities to deal with health problems, addiction, poverty, old age and loneliness etc, but these efforts are specific to the practical problem presented, I do not know of a place to go with a deeper ‘existential crisis’ in the absence of a mental health diagnosis. Maybe the secular world regards existential crisis as a mental health problem? I don’t know.

When I faced an existential crisis (which still lingers) I went to a University philosophy department. This resulted in years of study, two philosophy degrees and I was none the wiser on what was concerning me most. I did meet other students who were on a similar quest to mine, but none with answers outside a religious context, which brings me back to the question at hand.

Where do we find comfort without God?

D.

I find comfort in my philosophy. Comfort isn't the right word. I'd say I find confidence in my philosophy. I find confidence in knowing that the universe is not some incomprehensible realm of chaos where water can turn to wine by simply wishing. It's fixed, firm, intelligible and I have the tools needed to comprehend it. I don't need to appeal to the supernatural.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like true scotsman's post
08-08-2016, 07:01 PM
RE: Comfort without God
If you find comfort in a god's plan, do you also find comfort in a serial killers plan ?

The serial killer has been stalking you for years and is waiting for just the right moment to kill you, because killing you under certain circumstances will cause a chain of events to play out. A loved one who finds your body will become a police officer and in turn save many lives down the road. Your death fulfilled a purpose. A long time friend will stop drinking. Another friend will finally leave an abusive relationship and 50 years down the road, your great great grandchild will use a sample of your DNA to cure a disease.

Now then, doesn't that give you comfort ?

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-08-2016, 02:08 AM
RE: Comfort without God
(08-08-2016 03:20 PM)skyking Wrote:  I've found comfort in family and friends, and never had any comfort with god. I used to find comfort in community but that is not what it was when growing up in a small town.

skyking,

I get your point about "community". Churches continue to be communities, but our increasingly individualistic Western societies have changed over the last half century or more. I live in a 'middle class' neighbourhood in England and neighbours will go years without speaking to each other. It is much easier to socialise on the web, where we can just switch off the screen, than get involved with a neighbour that we can't switch off.

OTOH, churches continue to bash away with the old face to face modus operandi. I have yet to hear of online holy communion. Huh

D.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-08-2016, 02:27 AM
RE: Comfort without God
(08-08-2016 04:52 PM)Leela Wrote:  
(08-08-2016 01:56 AM)Dworkin Wrote:  Someone once said, “An atheist is a person without an invisible means of support.”
Oi that seems to be an old quote heh. I think I found it dated at 1955. But anyway, nice catch.
I would like to ask what type of invisible support a theist has?
Is God the invisible support?
Because if I don't believe in God, then yes, I don't believe that he can help me with anything anyway so I don't need him either.
If invisible support is meant as a type of community feeling, where you know that a group of like-minded people has your back, there are other groups who can provided that.

(08-08-2016 01:56 AM)Dworkin Wrote:  I think it is a plain fact that many people find comfort in religion. My concern and question is about non believers: atheists and agnostics. Believers are told to go to God for comfort in their most challenged times, and churches organise all kinds of support around the core concept of caring for those lost in the world. The concept of ‘flock’ and ‘shepherd’ emphasizes this.
I agree that this is how Christians and many other religions deal with problems. But it is only because they never learnt that there are other (healthier?) ways to deal with challenging times. In my case, I had good friends who were worried about my well-being, who talked sense into me. Later I met my boyfriend who is now my husband, who has a wonderful gift of catching me when I fall. And I do the same for him so I have that in my partnership. But even without him, I would still have some friends to turn to. And as a side note, the absolute vast majority of people in my social circle are Atheists. They all do the same.

(08-08-2016 01:56 AM)Dworkin Wrote:  For the atheist, things are different. Of course, there are efforts in communities to deal with health problems, addiction, poverty, old age and loneliness etc, but these efforts are specific to the practical problem presented, I do not know of a place to go with a deeper ‘existential crisis’ in the absence of a mental health diagnosis. Maybe the secular world regards existential crisis as a mental health problem? I don’t know.
I personally don't see why it is a problem to put efforts in very specific fields. It just means that you get much better, much more specialized help. I mean think about countries that try to be secular. So a poor person will usually get some social security, a bit of pocket money, a roof over their head, maybe they are being sent to school or helped to find a job. If the same person get's sick, they go to the doctor. If the same person has a problem with addiction, they see a councellor. And if they have a existential crisis, they shall turn to friends or family.

(08-08-2016 01:56 AM)Dworkin Wrote:  When I faced an existential crisis (which still lingers) I went to a University philosophy department. This resulted in years of study, two philosophy degrees and I was none the wiser on what was concerning me most. I did meet other students who were on a similar quest to mine, but none with answers outside a religious context, which brings me back to the question at hand.
I have that crisis very regular and the problem that many people in my social circle, including my husband, do not understand my issue. In those cases I turn to the internet to find people who understand me and can give me advice. The internet really has made things easier for people with problems. I am not surprised that your philosophy degrees didn't help you to get wiser. Philosophy doesn't usually just provide you with an answer.

(08-08-2016 01:56 AM)Dworkin Wrote:  Where do we find comfort without God?
As I said, I find comfort in my circle of friends, with my husband, sometimes right here on the forum.
For a while I organized an atheist meet up here in my city. We met regularly once or twice a month. Usually we had a topic of the evening, just in case we wouldn't have something else to talk about but usually we had enough to speak. Personal issues, things we found in the news, stuff that just went through our heads, and sometimes just silly stuff. And the good things was, we grew together as friends. Nothing felt forced. Once in a while, someone would bring an addition to one of our evenings. It was just very nice and fun. A happy place really. I do plan to organize these again, once I find a bigger flat again heh.


Cheers,
Le Leela

Hi Leela,

Your reply warms my humanist cockles. Big Grin A meeting of like minds in 3d is something that I miss greatly. Years back, I taught in adult education, small groups in empty schools in the evening. It was supposed to be literacy and basic English but we soon got onto personal stuff, current events and cups of coffee. I loved doing it and still have a close friend from those classes, 20 years ago. Happy times. Smile

Since then I've tried a couple of poetry groups, but these are mostly clever types with lots to say and the vibe is different for me. I liked it slow and easy.

D.

PS, I'll buy your point on philosophy. The study hasn't made me 'wiser' IMHO. I'm technically able to understand reasoning more clearly, but its still the same old me. Confused
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-08-2016, 08:22 AM
RE: Comfort without God
If a person finds "comfort" by believing in imaginary paranormal beings, then it's false, illusional comfort, and ultimately of no material benefit. It only sets the believer up for a bigger fall down the track.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes SYZ's post
09-08-2016, 02:53 PM
RE: Comfort without God
(09-08-2016 08:22 AM)SYZ Wrote:  If a person finds "comfort" by believing in imaginary paranormal beings, then it's false, illusional comfort, and ultimately of no material benefit. It only sets the believer up for a bigger fall down the track.

SYZ,

I see you have introduced Pascal's wager to the discussion. Most interesting. Smile

D.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: