Coming out atheist vs. LGBT
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03-06-2017, 07:40 AM
RE: Coming out atheist vs. LGBT
Abaris, I just read someone on twitter commenting on how he might be gay and a son of immigrants, but he's apparently still anti-choice and anti-poor (am quoting)

A side note: recently learnt that the actor who plays Frasier's dad, and who is gay in real life, apparently caught religion and is very strongly and very vocally against abortion. What it's it to you and who's asking you? Facepalm (Haven't been able to watch that show ever since, to be honest)


Still, I guess it's a step in the right direction for a place like Ireland.

Squidlooking, that's been my impression, too. Actually, I feel like if you're religious people might look at you funny.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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03-06-2017, 07:46 AM
RE: Coming out atheist vs. LGBT
(03-06-2017 07:40 AM)Vera Wrote:  Abaris, I just read someone on twitter commenting on how he might be gay and a son of immigrants, but he's apparently still anti-choice and anti-poor (am quoting)

He's obviously a neoliberal asshole. But I don't see anything that says anti pro choice in his vita. It says nothing about that issue at all, so an Irish may know better, but he was at the forefront of fighting for gay right, including same sex marriage.

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03-06-2017, 07:58 AM
RE: Coming out atheist vs. LGBT
That was a comment by an Irish lady, I, apparently, have no idea.

Sadly, I've seen some appalling misogyny (misandry, too, to be fair) from gay people, of both sexes. Sadly but not surprisingly, because, like we've been saying, it's a tiny part of who you are and the tribal instinct, the inability to see outside of "your group", or not to care exclusively about it, is much much stronger in a lot of people.

I will never understand it, because I kinda assumed that if you've been discriminated against that would make you *more* sensitive to other people going through the same, even if for different reasons; and yet, the black owner of the organisation I volunteered with last time I was in Brazil posts the vilest homophobic stuff on his fb... so...

Like I said, us and them... you'd think by now we would have learnt that we are *all* just ordinary men, but, no, in the end it's only round and round...

(well, not really, things are getting better. Only, way WAY too slowly.)

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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03-06-2017, 08:00 AM
RE: Coming out atheist vs. LGBT
(03-06-2017 07:58 AM)Vera Wrote:  Like I said, us and them... you'd think by now we would have learnt that we are *all* just ordinary men, but, no, in the end it's only round and round...

Anytime I see Vera use a Pink Floyd reference, that get's an upvote from me.

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03-06-2017, 08:05 AM
RE: Coming out atheist vs. LGBT
The question, Heath, is whether anybody else in here feels the way you do... Rolleyes

(Sorry, we all knew this was coming... Blush )

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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03-06-2017, 08:12 AM
RE: Coming out atheist vs. LGBT
(03-06-2017 08:05 AM)Vera Wrote:  The question, Heath, is whether anybody else in here feels the way you do... Rolleyes

Is there anybody out there?

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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03-06-2017, 08:21 AM
RE: Coming out atheist vs. LGBT
No. It was only fantasy and the wall was too high. And there's ivy growing on the door...

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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03-06-2017, 07:06 PM
RE: Coming out atheist vs. LGBT
My guess is that it would entirely depend of your network of support. Your friends, family, co-workers, etc.

My co-workers know I'm non-religious, and do not believe in the supernatural. My boss does not, and I have reason to not tell him, though someone else may have told him. My family does not know, though they probably suspect based on some of my shared views, and lack of interest in religious events. Reasonable doubt to hide it. My friends know. If I made it known to my family it would cause significant heart-break and undue worry, and ostracization by others. I suspect telling and letting my boss know could be detrimental to my career based on comments he has made. Based on my family's reaction to my gay bible-thumping cousin, I think for me it would be easier to be gay than atheist, but that's just my situation in particular. I'm sure the opposite is true for innumerable people. In the end it doesn't particularly matter, because it isn't a contest. Just show empathy wherever possible and treat people with the respect or condemnation they deserve based on their actions and ideas.

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08-06-2017, 08:23 PM
RE: Coming out atheist vs. LGBT
It wasn't until after I joined the military that I really became aware of homosexuals and then only in a joking manner. However I was posted to a post/station where I met the conductor of the cities philharmonic orchestra who it turned out gay that I had any contact with gays.

At the time I was deeply depressed (didn't know anything about depression at the time). We became intimate, slept together, showered but never any sort of actual sexual activity other than kissing. Through him at a party attended by a number of gay's, some of whom were married, I met and talked to a few who figured I, too, was gay. I denied it but don't think I convinced any of them.

The thing was they were not (sorry for the term) "swishy". Most of them were businessmen who were also gay. Nice guys, never insistent nor trying to convince me I was mistaken. I found them to be interesting to talk to, people who had things to say other than "gayness" for lack of another term.

It was my first contact with the gay world, interesting and informative but not at all disturbing or frightening. Whatever my vision of gays was before that changed to a positive one.

Fast forward; I do not understand the negative feelings toward "people who are different", if the package doesn't fit then change it. What's the big deal? It's the character that counts not the package. I have read, but don't know how accurate it might be, that, at least some, men find homosexuality to be a threat to their masculinity. Whether that is true or not I suppose is up for debate.

I am curious about the mechanics of sex change, well not the actual procedure the doctors perform but the hormonal and psychological needs that come after the surgery. The person remains the same it's just the body that (for the rest of us) changes.

Somehow I'm beginning to think I'm getting in a little over my head here so I'll quit. Besides it's getting a bit late; I'm having trouble keeping my head up and eyes open.

Today is the best day of my life and tomorrow will be even better.
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09-06-2017, 09:47 AM
RE: Coming out atheist vs. LGBT
Ro3bert, apologies if I have read this wrong, but are you gay/bi? Or was it bit of experimenting on your part? [If that's an insensitive question, feel free to ignore.]

Re: contact with homosexual/lesbian people: I have some good friends who are a lesbian couple, and have met various people of various sexuality's in my time, and it's never been a problem, to me at least anyway. I've never been 100% sure why anybody judges people on the other people they like to shag.

There have been some people I've met over there years, that I liked more as a person/people once I found out they were gay. One guy in particular I thought was a bit of a dirty old man type, as he was always "flirting" with my wife, and with him being a good 20+ years my age it made him look really sleazy. Later found out he was gay and was just massively over friendly in himself as a person. I instantly liked him after that and felt like such an idiot for not seeing it the whole time. The irony is he may have flirted with me a bit at the time and I would have never have known haha.

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