Coming out atheist vs. LGBT
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09-06-2017, 11:11 AM (This post was last modified: 09-06-2017 11:15 AM by Leerob.)
RE: Coming out atheist vs. LGBT
(08-06-2017 08:23 PM)Ro3bert Wrote:  I am curious about the mechanics of sex change, well not the actual procedure the doctors perform but the hormonal and psychological needs that come after the surgery. The person remains the same it's just the body that (for the rest of us) changes.
If you want to transition, in most countries you need to go to therapy for a set time to be approved.
While in therapy you will already start your transition.
After a while of "social transition" where you come out to everybody, you dress that way and so on, you will start taking hormones. (Way before the surgeries)
So once you take hormones, the bodies starts changing.
Taking hormones is really not just a psychological thing.
Usually the hormones have a positive effect on the mood. Depression often becomes less prominent.
And physical things that happen for FTM that come from taking hormones: facial and chest hair starts growing, voice breaks, period stops, muscle growth is easier, etc. So basically a second puberty.
So as you see, the hormones actually come before the surgeries not after.

I hope that helps.

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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24-06-2017, 05:17 AM
RE: Coming out atheist vs. LGBT
Gay guy here who became a teen in the late 90's. It's not exactly parallel but it is very very similar. It was horrible to not know if my mom was going to stop loving me because i was a godless heathen, or because i sucked dick. Turns out she stopped loving me because i was a godless heathen who sucked dick. At the time i was angry at her. Now i just feel really sad for her.
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01-07-2017, 11:27 PM
RE: Coming out atheist vs. LGBT
(01-06-2017 01:19 PM)abaris Wrote:  
(01-06-2017 01:10 PM)Vera Wrote:  I would imagine coming out in the original sense might be worse - one can (at least theoretically) go back to the fold. One cannot, however, "outgrow"* their sexual orientation.

I guess they're talking from an American perspective, which is completely alien to Europeans as far as religion is concerned.

I wouldn't hesitate a single moment to declare myself an atheist if asked, which happens very rarely. LGBT people on the other hand face ridicule and hatred from all kinds of groups.

I think in my part of the US LGBT is more acceptable than atheist. More people here (especially, it seems, the more educated people) are motivated to be politically correct (or at least afraid of legal repercussions) toward LGBT. But atheist? Far more likely to gasp, pull their children around behind them to protect them, tell you outright you're going to hell, with zero qualms of being seen as prejudiced or non-PC. Most rednecks here know, or are even related to at least one LGBT person. Far fewer of them realize they know any atheist people.

"I wouldn't hesitate a single moment to declare myself an atheist if asked." I really want to get to that point. Without feeling like it puts me at risk for ridicule, hatred or even violence.

Just curious....what part of the world are you in? I'm in North Carolina. AKA the Bible-belt, or as I say, the Bible girdle.

Where are we going and why am I in this hand basket?
"Life is not all lovely thorns and singing vultures, you know." ~ Morticia Addams
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01-07-2017, 11:32 PM
RE: Coming out atheist vs. LGBT
Hmmm. I just realized. I've never "come out" as atheist to any LGBT person. Hunh. I suspect there wouldn't be any higher degree of acceptance in the LGBT population than there is in the general population overall here. I wonder though...

Where are we going and why am I in this hand basket?
"Life is not all lovely thorns and singing vultures, you know." ~ Morticia Addams
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02-07-2017, 02:22 AM
RE: Coming out atheist vs. LGBT
(01-06-2017 01:01 PM)GMSkeptic Wrote:  Do you think atheist and LGBT people in the closet share similar feelings and/or experiences? What about coming out experiences? I've heard people say that coming out atheist is often worse actually. Not sure what I think about that. Anyone have any experiences that could shine some light on the subject? Or has anyone here come out as both atheist and LGBT?

Until I joined this forum, I'd never even heard the phrase "coming out" applied to atheists—here in Australia. As we're primarily a secular country there's never been any societal pressures to hide one's atheism, or any religious belief for that matter. I live in a rural community that's probably one third Catholic, one third Anglican, and one third atheist, and I've not once seen any evidence of conflicts based on religious differences.

It seems that until Americans move their tolerance for differences of religion and non-religion into the 21st century, "coming" out is a term solely used, and understood, in that country—for declaring one's atheism publicly, or even privately (unbelievably).

But in Australia, there's still a lot of fear and distrust of "the other"—as in LGBTQ people—particularly with our conservative aging population. And the "coming out" term certainly applies to them here when they openly declare their sexuality.

So, to answer your question, I'd say no, there's no comparison between coming out as an atheist or coming out as LGBTQ. The former doesn't really impact anyone one way or the other, whilst the latter still evokes negative responses and rejection amongst the more conservative of the Aussie population. Sadly.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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02-07-2017, 07:11 AM
RE: Coming out atheist vs. LGBT
The only places I've ever heard the term "coming out" atheist were on this forum and the parent podcast. It surprised me when I heard it and my first impression was that some atheists want to be a part of an oppressed class like gays. It seemed ridiculous to compare your (non) religious views to sexuality because in my mind sexuality is a much more profound component of our humanity. Religion is make believe but who you have sex with and/or fall in love with is real. I can't say that heterosexuality is stupid or outdated or indicative of a kind of mental retardation. Heterosexuality propagates the species so there's a real contrast when you don't fall in line. In other words, atheism is much easier to go on the offensive about. If asked why I don't believe in God I can say because it's stupid. It's not stupid to be a heterosexual so if you're gay you're pretty much relegated to playing defense. Plus, sexuality is the defining factor of adolescence and puberty. It's literally the blossoming of one's sexuality. Religions come and go but fucking keeps right on fucking. Gays have it harder but as atheists we can help correct that. No point in playing the victim, though. If anything, make religious people feel marginalized for being stupid. It shouldn't be too hard since they believe stupid bullshit.
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02-07-2017, 09:09 AM
RE: Coming out atheist vs. LGBT
"It surprised me when I heard it and my first impression was that some atheists want to be a part of an oppressed class like gays."

I'mFred: I hope LATER impressions have helped you to understand that (most) atheists don't actually "want" to be considered part of any oppressed class. But here in the Bible girdle (Southern US) making it known that you don't believe in God really can put an invisible target on your back for all kinds of ugly mistreatment. As I've mentioned in a different thread, THIS is in the Constitution of the State in which I was raised and still live:

"Sec. 8. Disqualifications for office.
The following persons shall be disqualified for office:
First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God."

And mine is not the only state. Seven of the 50 United States have similar wording in their constitutions. Yes, the US Supreme Court has ruled that the US Constitution overrides these State *rules.* But dammit, they're still there. And people still cite them and try to get winners of local races impeached based on them. And/or their opponents use this part of the State Constitution to try to run voters away from openly atheist candidates.

I remember reading in my school history books that a long long time ago some presidential candidate helped sway the less educated masses to vote for him by saying his opponent was a "thespian." And since most people didn't know what that meant.... And let's face it, most anything can sound insulting when delivered as though it is going to be met with a horrified gasp from the audience. And it did cause that gasp. And it wasn't because they didn't like actors.

I also remember something much more recent about someone saying aloud that his opponent was "a Theist." Similar audience gasp and not because they recognized that he was (in reality) telling them that his opponent did believe in god.

We live in a world where there are still so many places where being Atheist can get you killed.

For me, coming "outtathereligioncloset" meant finally opening the closed secret door and stepping out into the spotlight and taking my chances with how the locals, my friends, my grown child and my husband would react. So the comparison was apt. Still in that closet with ALL my other relatives. Have run those scenes many times in my mind. None of them turn out well. AT.ALL.

So I continue to be the quiet hypocrite/liar at family gatherings where the "Heavenly Father" is thanked for our food "in Jesus' name" and join the rest of the family in saying "Amen." I'm not proud of doing that. Nor am I ashamed to be atheist. I'm just not willing to give my older relatives heart attacks or go 27 rounds with my church deacon sibling. Maybe I'll get there down the road.

Where are we going and why am I in this hand basket?
"Life is not all lovely thorns and singing vultures, you know." ~ Morticia Addams
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02-07-2017, 09:51 AM
RE: Coming out atheist vs. LGBT
I live in Jesusland Lower Alabama

didn't grow up here though

Just don't think it compares to the difficulties of growing up LGBT
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02-07-2017, 12:00 PM (This post was last modified: 02-07-2017 12:05 PM by outtathereligioncloset.)
RE: Coming out atheist vs. LGBT
(02-07-2017 09:51 AM)ImFred Wrote:  I live in Jesusland Lower Alabama

didn't grow up here though

Just don't think it compares to the difficulties of growing up LGBT

Alabama...wow you are really right here in the Bible girdle too!

I agree about the "growing up" LGBT part. I was more addressing the equally appropriate use of "coming out" as a phrasing use/comparison. Secrets kept in closets are still secrets kept in closets whether they are LGBT, religion or even childhood abuses. The secrets we keep tend to own us rather than us owning them. Bringing them out of the closet and into the light is still, well... all very hard in each individual case and all unique experiences for the say-ers and the hear-ers. And have the potential to shatter people's worlds as they know them.

Incidentally, the last person I know who came out to family as a lesbian had an aunt say to her: " Oh you just haven't met the right man yet."

Nobody I've ever known who came out to their family as atheist has ever heard the words "Oh you just haven't found the right God yet."

Where are we going and why am I in this hand basket?
"Life is not all lovely thorns and singing vultures, you know." ~ Morticia Addams
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02-07-2017, 09:06 PM
RE: Coming out atheist vs. LGBT
(02-07-2017 09:09 AM)outtathereligioncloset Wrote:  As I've mentioned in a different thread, THIS is in the Constitution of the State in which I was raised and still live:

"Sec. 8. Disqualifications for office.
The following persons shall be disqualified for office:
First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God."

And mine is not the only state. Seven of the 50 United States have similar wording in their constitutions. Yes, the US Supreme Court has ruled that the US Constitution overrides these State *rules.* But dammit, they're still there. And people still cite them and try to get winners of local races impeached based on them. And/or their opponents use this part of the State Constitution to try to run voters away from openly atheist candidates.

I'm in NC, too. And I remember that technically Torcaso v Watkins nullified this, but yeah, it's still used. It's sad that people still claim to be open-minded and touting a new century but still harbor such feeli about atheists.
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