Commentary on Peebo's and Heywood's Comfy Corner
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08-08-2015, 06:49 PM
[split] Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
(08-08-2015 06:23 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(08-08-2015 02:54 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Um.... Some quick thoughts... I'm still not sure if I'm following everything in the above posting.

Okay... So, on the one hand your kind of saying that at sub-atomic levels things get 'weird'. Yes?

Then, in the next paragraph, you state "..... Why should I accept that some things are intrinsically random when this goes against every observation I have ever made...."

Which, seems to me, to be a tad of a contradiction. Subatomic things are random... you don't see random etc.

Thence your delving into 'causes'. So, with our current understanding of our reality, we know it had a 'beginning' point...... Everything after that can be said to be a 'Just cause'. No?

There's also the problem that then, your chibi dice roller is still captive/part of the very nature of reality they are poking. Since even quantum effects don't happen over distances faster than the speed of light.

As for 'Something outside randomizing quantum weirdness'. I posit that the quantum weirdness is/could just be an emergent property of.. the quantum stuff.

Hence the 'Why' of the quantum weirdness is why people are smashing really small things together at insanely high speeds to see what 'falls out' of the experiment (Hence, the Higgs Boson.)

* Also not that I do believe they have found/discovered/demonstrated yet anothr sub atomic particle but you'd have to hop up into the general board and ask some one better versed than my self all about that.

Quantum mechanics loses a lot of its weirdness when you assume the existence of God. Why did the observed photon pass through this slit and not the other? Well if the cause of the effect cannot be local, then that suggest the existence of a non-local cause. If our world requires non local causes, and physics suggest that it does, then one of the roles of God in our world would be to be the dice thrower. Our world doesn't work with out randomness.....we have to have it and God is the supplier of it.

What is ridiculous in my mind is rejecting the possibility of non-local causes and instead just assuming that things are now somehow....intrinsically random. Intrinsic random makes zero sense. How can an atom decide randomly, that it is going to decay?

Positing an explanation that itself requires even more explanation is not rational.

Atomic nuclei decay because they are unstable - the nuclear forces are not balanced. The nucleons are not static - they are jostling about. It is not surprising that some resulting configurations are so unstable that particles are emitted or the nucleus fractures. No hidden variables, gods, or pixies required.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-08-2015, 08:35 PM
RE: Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
*Adjusts Chas' comfy chair..... *

(08-08-2015 06:49 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(08-08-2015 06:23 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Quantum mechanics loses a lot of its weirdness when you assume the existence of God. Why did the observed photon pass through this slit and not the other? Well if the cause of the effect cannot be local, then that suggest the existence of a non-local cause. If our world requires non local causes, and physics suggest that it does, then one of the roles of God in our world would be to be the dice thrower. Our world doesn't work with out randomness.....we have to have it and God is the supplier of it.

What is ridiculous in my mind is rejecting the possibility of non-local causes and instead just assuming that things are now somehow....intrinsically random. Intrinsic random makes zero sense. How can an atom decide randomly, that it is going to decay?

Positing an explanation that itself requires even more explanation is not rational.

Atomic nuclei decay because they are unstable - the nuclear forces are not balanced. The nucleons are not static - they are jostling about. It is not surprising that some resulting configurations are so unstable that particles are emitted or the nucleus fractures. No hidden variables, gods, or pixies required.

*Subtly pushes Chas' comfy chair a bit further away from the microphone and sets side table of nicely warmed mead closer to Chas' chair.* Wink
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08-08-2015, 08:58 PM
RE: Peebo's and Heywood's comfy corner. :)
(08-08-2015 08:35 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  *Adjusts Chas' comfy chair..... *

(08-08-2015 06:49 PM)Chas Wrote:  Positing an explanation that itself requires even more explanation is not rational.

Atomic nuclei decay because they are unstable - the nuclear forces are not balanced. The nucleons are not static - they are jostling about. It is not surprising that some resulting configurations are so unstable that particles are emitted or the nucleus fractures. No hidden variables, gods, or pixies required.

*Subtly pushes Chas' comfy chair a bit further away from the microphone and sets side table of nicely warmed mead closer to Chas' chair.* Wink

Oops.

(Sidles out quietly.)

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08-08-2015, 09:21 PM
RE: Commentary on Peebo's and Heywood's Comfy Corner
FYI

This thread relates to this match

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08-08-2015, 09:39 PM
RE: Commentary on Peebo's and Heywood's Comfy Corner
Hug Chas. Big Grin

Hey!

*Slides comfy chair under Chas' butt*

Nothing stopping yourself from offering words of encouragement or advice here. Smile

Also, does any one have a good handle on the angle that Heywood is pushing? I am kind of getting lost in all the quantum weirdness they keep posting. Blush
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08-08-2015, 09:44 PM
RE: Commentary on Peebo's and Heywood's Comfy Corner
(08-08-2015 09:39 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  ...
does any one have a good handle on the angle that Heywood is pushing?
...

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08-08-2015, 09:55 PM
RE: Commentary on Peebo's and Heywood's Comfy Corner
Just let me know when Blowjob goes Full-Chopra.

"Love alleviates personal balance"

"The unexplainable arises and subsides in the expansion of observations"

"Quantum physics constructs a jumble of happiness"

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08-08-2015, 11:01 PM
RE: Commentary on Peebo's and Heywood's Comfy Corner
(08-08-2015 06:49 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(08-08-2015 06:23 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Quantum mechanics loses a lot of its weirdness when you assume the existence of God. Why did the observed photon pass through this slit and not the other? Well if the cause of the effect cannot be local, then that suggest the existence of a non-local cause. If our world requires non local causes, and physics suggest that it does, then one of the roles of God in our world would be to be the dice thrower. Our world doesn't work with out randomness.....we have to have it and God is the supplier of it.

What is ridiculous in my mind is rejecting the possibility of non-local causes and instead just assuming that things are now somehow....intrinsically random. Intrinsic random makes zero sense. How can an atom decide randomly, that it is going to decay?

Positing an explanation that itself requires even more explanation is not rational.

Atomic nuclei decay because they are unstable - the nuclear forces are not balanced. The nucleons are not static - they are jostling about. It is not surprising that some resulting configurations are so unstable that particles are emitted or the nucleus fractures. No hidden variables, gods, or pixies required.

Chas, I do agree that atomic decay probably has some local cause and therefore is no actually random. It may appear random to us because we are ignorant of certain facts of observable reality. However Bells theorem tells us that reality either has to it some intrinsic randomness(which makes no sense whatsoever) or the cause some effects is non-local. Assuming of course our reality is governed by laws quantum mechanics describes.
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09-08-2015, 12:00 AM
RE: Commentary on Peebo's and Heywood's Comfy Corner
(08-08-2015 11:57 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  What is comes down too in an analogy that most people can understand is this. Our observable reality needs something outside itself to inject randomness into it. Our wold needs a dice roller.

Holy fuck, presuppose much?

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09-08-2015, 12:09 AM
RE: Commentary on Peebo's and Heywood's Comfy Corner
(09-08-2015 12:00 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(08-08-2015 11:57 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  What is comes down too in an analogy that most people can understand is this. Our observable reality needs something outside itself to inject randomness into it. Our wold needs a dice roller.

Holy fuck, presuppose much?

You need to presuppose a whole lot more to get "intrinsic randomness".
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