Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
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01-09-2016, 08:10 PM
RE: Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
(01-09-2016 06:07 PM)xear Wrote:  How would you put plants and single cell amoebas. Neither of them have minds but both have varying degrees of awareness?

They react to stimuli but, as far as I know, it is a relatively simple chemical response. That may be an extremely simple form of awareness but I'm not sure what the point is.

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01-09-2016, 08:11 PM
RE: Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
(01-09-2016 07:27 PM)pablo Wrote:  Some single-celled organisms have showed signs of "intelligence", but it is not fully understood.

They have? Do you have a reference?

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01-09-2016, 08:24 PM
RE: Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
(01-09-2016 08:11 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(01-09-2016 07:27 PM)pablo Wrote:  Some single-celled organisms have showed signs of "intelligence", but it is not fully understood.

They have? Do you have a reference?

Sorry I should have put this in my earlier post.

http://www.nature.com/news/how-brainless...ce-1.11811
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01-09-2016, 08:35 PM
RE: Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
(01-09-2016 08:24 PM)pablo Wrote:  
(01-09-2016 08:11 PM)unfogged Wrote:  They have? Do you have a reference?

Sorry I should have put this in my earlier post.

http://www.nature.com/news/how-brainless...ce-1.11811

Thanks, I had seen that a while back. Fascinating stuff. It isn't exactly single-cell intelligence since it is a colony but still pretty amazing that they can cooperate like that.

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02-09-2016, 05:00 AM
RE: Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
(01-09-2016 08:10 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(01-09-2016 06:07 PM)xear Wrote:  How would you put plants and single cell amoebas. Neither of them have minds but both have varying degrees of awareness?

They react to stimuli but, as far as I know, it is a relatively simple chemical response. That may be an extremely simple form of awareness but I'm not sure what the point is.

The point is consciousness or awareness is totally different than mind or mental faculties... a point that seems to have been lost on Sam Harris.

A plant has consciousness/awareness but no mental faculties.

Losing all mental faculties has nothing to do with whether there is life, being, awareness after the death of the body.

Do you view it that all life forms make a one way trip into non-existence? And the Universe just hasn't had enough time to complete its transformation into absolute non-existence?

If that were so it would violate the scientific law of conservation of energy [awareness/consciousness certainly has energy].


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02-09-2016, 05:07 AM
RE: Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
(02-09-2016 05:00 AM)xear Wrote:  
(01-09-2016 08:10 PM)unfogged Wrote:  They react to stimuli but, as far as I know, it is a relatively simple chemical response. That may be an extremely simple form of awareness but I'm not sure what the point is.

The point is consciousness or awareness is totally different than mind or mental faculties... a point that seems to have been lost on Sam Harris.

A plant has consciousness/awareness but no mental faculties.

Losing all mental faculties has nothing to do with whether there is life, being, awareness after the death of the body.

Do you view it that all life forms make a one way trip into non-existence? And the Universe just hasn't had enough time to complete its transformation into absolute non-existence?

If that were so it would violate the scientific law of conservation of energy [awareness/consciousness certainly has energy].


.

If a pattern of electrical activity is dissipated or absorbed by it's surroundings, that pattern no longer exists, there will be a residual heat energy left in the material that dissipates or absorbs it.

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02-09-2016, 05:15 AM
RE: Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
(02-09-2016 05:00 AM)xear Wrote:  
(01-09-2016 08:10 PM)unfogged Wrote:  They react to stimuli but, as far as I know, it is a relatively simple chemical response. That may be an extremely simple form of awareness but I'm not sure what the point is.

The point is consciousness or awareness is totally different than mind or mental faculties... a point that seems to have been lost on Sam Harris.

A plant has consciousness/awareness but no mental faculties.

Losing all mental faculties has nothing to do with whether there is life, being, awareness after the death of the body.

Do you view it that all life forms make a one way trip into non-existence? And the Universe just hasn't had enough time to complete its transformation into absolute non-existence?

If that were so it would violate the scientific law of conservation of energy [awareness/consciousness certainly has energy].


.

Also, could you explain what's going on with this alleged consciousness that's separated from the brain during the progression of Alzheimer's disease in a person?

Do you think a person that no longer remembers who they were would still be held accountable in the afterlife when they don't remember anything?

The concept of accountability in the afterlife is grounded in ignorance of what the brain is.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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02-09-2016, 05:23 AM
RE: Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
(02-09-2016 05:00 AM)xear Wrote:  A plant has consciousness/awareness but no mental faculties.

You will need to provide support for that assertion.

Quote:Losing all mental faculties has nothing to do with whether there is life, being, awareness after the death of the body.

Again, you need to define your terms. How do you have awareness with no mental faculties?

Quote:Do you view it that all life forms make a one way trip into non-existence? And the Universe just hasn't had enough time to complete its transformation into absolute non-existence?

It is hard to respond because you phrase things in such a strange way. Life forms making a trip into non-existence doesn't mean anything to me. Neither does the idea of the universe transforming into non-existence. Since I have no idea what you mean I can't answer the question.

Quote:If that were so it would violate the scientific law of conservation of energy [awareness/consciousness certainly has energy].

Yes, awareness/consciousness requires energy but it also requires an organized pattern and a physical substrate. If pattern is broken or the substrate destroyed then the awareness ceases and the energy that was there dissipates. We're back to the bricks still being there after the wall has been knocked down. No conservation law is broken by re-arranging the components in such a way that the previous thing no longer exists.

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02-09-2016, 05:25 AM
RE: Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
(02-09-2016 05:15 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(02-09-2016 05:00 AM)xear Wrote:  The point is consciousness or awareness is totally different than mind or mental faculties... a point that seems to have been lost on Sam Harris.

A plant has consciousness/awareness but no mental faculties.

Losing all mental faculties has nothing to do with whether there is life, being, awareness after the death of the body.

Do you view it that all life forms make a one way trip into non-existence? And the Universe just hasn't had enough time to complete its transformation into absolute non-existence?

If that were so it would violate the scientific law of conservation of energy [awareness/consciousness certainly has energy].


.

Also, could you explain what's going on with this alleged consciousness that's separated from the brain during the progression of Alzheimer's disease in a person?

Do you think a person that no longer remembers who they were would still be held accountable in the afterlife when they don't remember anything?

The concept of accountability in the afterlife is grounded in ignorance of what the brain is.

Who said anything about accountability? Not me.



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02-09-2016, 05:29 AM
RE: Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
Again, you need to define your terms. How do you have awareness with no mental faculties?

Just like a plant does.



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