Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
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02-09-2016, 05:37 AM
RE: Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
(02-09-2016 05:25 AM)xear Wrote:  
(02-09-2016 05:15 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Also, could you explain what's going on with this alleged consciousness that's separated from the brain during the progression of Alzheimer's disease in a person?

Do you think a person that no longer remembers who they were would still be held accountable in the afterlife when they don't remember anything?

The concept of accountability in the afterlife is grounded in ignorance of what the brain is.

Who said anything about accountability? Not me.



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Stop being obtuse, are you asserting the existence of a deist god concept? Be specific!

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

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02-09-2016, 05:41 AM
RE: Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
(02-09-2016 05:29 AM)xear Wrote:  Again, you need to define your terms. How do you have awareness with no mental faculties?

Just like a plant does.

So... none. Unless you want to explain what you mean by a plant having awareness.

Plants react to some stimuli but I wouldn't characterize it as awareness in any meaningful sense.

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02-09-2016, 05:42 AM
RE: Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
(01-09-2016 08:53 AM)xear Wrote:  
(01-09-2016 08:42 AM)unfogged Wrote:  I see no reason to accept that. You've implied that you accept an objective reality
"I can also say a world exists. I can't prove that but it appears so."
Please explain how something could exist when it was perceived but not when it wasn't if there is an objective reality. What evidence do you have?

The world exists as an appearance to me. My awareness is not the only awareness so it exists as an appearance to others. If there were no others and no me [nothing alive] I can confidently say the world would not exist.

Do you dispute my assertion, there can be no moment or condition from which awareness is missing. Its absence means their absence.j

So, before we were here, nothing existed?
How did we come about? Consider

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02-09-2016, 05:42 AM
RE: Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
There are two possibilities.

1.We know we exist. We reason existence always is. [Occam's razor]

2. We know we exist. We conjecture that our existence pops out of non-existence for no discernable reason and pops back into non-existence at death.

[This explanation leaves a lot of loose threads and difficult to explain phenomenon, not the least of which is, how does non-being, non-existence which has no properties, give rise to being?]



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02-09-2016, 05:44 AM
RE: Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
(02-09-2016 05:29 AM)xear Wrote:  Again, you need to define your terms. How do you have awareness with no mental faculties?

Just like a plant does.



.

Nature is replete with examples of different animals having a sliding progression of mental faculties. The dividing line between being "aware" and not being "aware" is not clearly defined. In fact, using the term "aware" is not very useful, there is a continuum of cognitive ability displayed in nature.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

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02-09-2016, 05:58 AM
RE: Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
(02-09-2016 05:42 AM)xear Wrote:  There are two possibilities.

1.We know we exist. We reason existence always is. [Occam's razor]

2. We know we exist. We conjecture that our existence pops out of non-existence for no discernable reason and pops back into non-existence at death.

[This explanation leaves a lot of loose threads and difficult to explain phenomenon, not the least of which is, how does non-being, non-existence which has no properties, give rise to being?]

You need to stop using the word "existence" because while it seems to mean something like "consciousness" in your usage it still isn't at all clear what you really mean.

Your continual attempts to use strawman arguments like "popping" in and out don't help your case. Nobody is arguing that consciousness pops into being or pops into nothingness. Consciousness develops as an organism grows in complexity and ends when that organism dies. If you believe something else happens then you need to provide evidence for your beliefs.

Finally, not having a complete understanding of how consciousness works does not mean that you get to substitute some other explanation that isn't supported by evidence. All the evidence we have suggests that consciousness ends when a person dies and simply repeating that you don't see how that could be doesn't matter unless you can demonstrate how it could survive. If you are just going to repeat nonsensical claims then there's no point continuing to discuss it.

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02-09-2016, 05:59 AM
RE: Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
(02-09-2016 05:44 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(02-09-2016 05:29 AM)xear Wrote:  Again, you need to define your terms. How do you have awareness with no mental faculties?

Just like a plant does.



.

Nature is replete with examples of different animals having a sliding progression of mental faculties. The dividing line between being "aware" and not being "aware" is not clearly defined. In fact, using the term "aware" is not very useful, there is a continuum of cognitive ability displayed in nature.


If you think a plant has mental faculties then I guess you have a different definition of mental faculties than I do.



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02-09-2016, 06:10 AM
RE: Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
(02-09-2016 05:59 AM)xear Wrote:  If you think a plant has mental faculties then I guess you have a different definition of mental faculties than I do.

Hard to say since you won't explain what you mean by 'mental faculties' or 'awareness'. With most people there is sufficient overlap in the way they use words to make communication possible. With you it grows increasingly difficult because it has become apparent that you have unique definitions of fairly common words... is English a second language? If we can't establish some common ground then whatever point you are trying to make will be forever lost.

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02-09-2016, 07:01 AM
RE: Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
(02-09-2016 06:10 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(02-09-2016 05:59 AM)xear Wrote:  If you think a plant has mental faculties then I guess you have a different definition of mental faculties than I do.

Hard to say since you won't explain what you mean by 'mental faculties' or 'awareness'. With most people there is sufficient overlap in the way they use words to make communication possible. With you it grows increasingly difficult because it has become apparent that you have unique definitions of fairly common words... is English a second language? If we can't establish some common ground then whatever point you are trying to make will be forever lost.

Mental faculties: one of the inherent cognitive or perceptual powers of the mind.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/mental+faculty

Cognition: Quite simply, cognition refers to thinking.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/cognition

A blade of grass cannot think, cannot imagine, has no mental powers, no brain, no mental memory. A neurosurgeon cannot do anything with a blade of grass because it lacks mental faculties. It does have life. It lives, it dies. Does it have an afterlife? Whether it does or not has nothing to do with mental faculties whatever the answer.



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02-09-2016, 07:17 AM
RE: Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
(01-09-2016 05:25 PM)xear Wrote:  ...
I was using "existence, awareness, life, consciousness, being," as the same thing. None of them have anything to do with mind or mental faculties.

How do you distinguish existence from consciousness?

9pm on a still night here in Kuala Lumpur.

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