Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
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11-02-2013, 03:10 PM
RE: Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
(11-02-2013 03:03 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Of course there is corroborating evidence. But just as there IS a power of myth, there are powers of disbelief, willingness to suspend disbelief, etc. It's an axiom of human relations that lies believed have the same effect as truth--that's what you tell all of us "stupid" Christians, right?
I figured out a long time ago that a JUST God would condemn to eternal Hell only those who might argue with Him eternally. Josh McDowell was asked while a college student by a professor, "What's your proof, son?" McDowell, a former Atheist, spoke without taking a breath for 45 minutes.
Of course, if we look at your recent, deep, factual post of two sentences' length, you create another straw man by writing, "There is no corroborating evidence, just stories in the Bible. Your belief is not evidence."
I NEVER said MY BELIEF is evidence. I NEVER IMPLIED I count on corroborating evidence to have faith, either!

Fine. I do not have faith. I require evidence. Faith is misleading and therefore dangerous.

If you can believe one thing without evidence, you can believe anything.

Go ahead and have faith, but that carries no weight with me. If faith is all you've got, we have nothing to discuss.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-02-2013, 07:57 AM
RE: Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
Quote:Fine. I do not have faith. I require evidence. Faith is misleading and therefore dangerous.

If you can believe one thing without evidence, you can believe anything.

Go ahead and have faith, but that carries no weight with me. If faith is all you've got, we have nothing to discuss.
Chas, I hear what you're saying loud and clear. However, as I've stated many times this week the very definition of Bible faith/trust is that real Christian faith is based solely and wholly on evidence.
Now I cannot offer proof God exists just as you cannot offer proof God doesn't exist but I can offer evidence that God exists. I consider trusting my spouse and friends to be based on positive experience and evidence and the same for Jesus Christ. Thanks.
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12-02-2013, 08:00 AM
RE: Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
(12-02-2013 07:57 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:Fine. I do not have faith. I require evidence. Faith is misleading and therefore dangerous.

If you can believe one thing without evidence, you can believe anything.

Go ahead and have faith, but that carries no weight with me. If faith is all you've got, we have nothing to discuss.
Chas, I hear what you're saying loud and clear. However, as I've stated many times this week the very definition of Bible faith/trust is that real Christian faith is based solely and wholly on evidence.
Now I cannot offer proof God exists just as you cannot offer proof God doesn't exist but I can offer evidence that God exists. I consider trusting my spouse and friends to be based on positive experience and evidence and the same for Jesus Christ. Thanks.
You keep saying that you can offer evidence. I have not seen you actually do so once.


Put up or shut up.
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12-02-2013, 08:03 AM (This post was last modified: 26-06-2013 09:42 PM by Chas.)
RE: Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
(12-02-2013 07:57 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:Fine. I do not have faith. I require evidence. Faith is misleading and therefore dangerous.

If you can believe one thing without evidence, you can believe anything.

Go ahead and have faith, but that carries no weight with me. If faith is all you've got, we have nothing to discuss.
Chas, I hear what you're saying loud and clear. However, as I've stated many times this week the very definition of Bible faith/trust is that real Christian faith is based solely and wholly on evidence.
Now I cannot offer proof God exists just as you cannot offer proof God doesn't exist but I can offer evidence that God exists. I consider trusting my spouse and friends to be based on positive experience and evidence and the same for Jesus Christ. Thanks.

As I said, I see no evidence of God or Jesus in the world. The universe looks just as we would expect it to without their existence.

If the 'evidence' you have consists of the Bible and your feelings, then we don't really have a common basis for further discussion or debate.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-02-2013, 11:33 AM
RE: Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
Quote:As I said, I see no evidence of God or Jesus in the world. The universe looks just as we would expect it to without their existence.
Facts are facts and data is data but we're splitting hairs over the interpretation of data. All the "The Holy Spirit shows us" or "special pleading for evidence" involved boils down to this. 97% of man interprets the data as God is.
What can I say, the fact that you see no evidence of God means you're "lucky" or your time hasn't come yet. I can sit here and waste my time "casting pearls" to pile on hundreds of prophecies, Bible codes, historical interventions, personal testimonies, yada, yada but in both secular and religious contexts, stubborn people are known for believing want they want to believe!
Tack on the Atheist predilection for "truth can be relative" and "I only will affirm naturalist and scientist data" and you have a hot mess of people with their heads in sand who are also not nice when it comes to ethics and human relationships. "Honey, we're divorcing because our current Darwinian biochemical attraction has ended." Lovely!
No, I certainly, like you, go my own way as a born again fundamentalist. I don't give a flying you-know as to what 97% of believe because people are ignorant sheep (as the Bible says Smile). But when 97% of people in a room brandish weapons, I act in self-preservationist ways where possible! 97% of the world says they are accountable to God or God's Law of some type... I want to extend Pascal's wager to say when a Atheist says, "So what? Hundreds of religious people told me there's a Hell after death, screw 'em... I know NOTHING about death other than that there is a cessation of visible function so it must mean nothing... oh, well..." that they are being the "idiots God made" on the other thread! Smile
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12-02-2013, 11:37 AM
RE: Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
(12-02-2013 11:33 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:As I said, I see no evidence of God or Jesus in the world. The universe looks just as we would expect it to without their existence.
Facts are facts and data is data but we're splitting hairs over the interpretation of data. All the "The Holy Spirit shows us" or "special pleading for evidence" involved boils down to this. 97% of man interprets the data as God is.
What can I say, the fact that you see no evidence of God means you're "lucky" or your time hasn't come yet. I can sit here and waste my time "casting pearls" to pile on hundreds of prophecies, Bible codes, historical interventions, personal testimonies, yada, yada but in both secular and religious contexts, stubborn people are known for believing want they want to believe!
Tack on the Atheist predilection for "truth can be relative" and "I only will affirm naturalist and scientist data" and you have a hot mess of people with their heads in sand who are also not nice when it comes to ethics and human relationships. "Honey, we're divorcing because our current Darwinian biochemical attraction has ended." Lovely!
No, I certainly, like you, go my own way as a born again fundamentalist. I don't give a flying you-know as to what 97% of believe because people are ignorant sheep (as the Bible says Smile). But when 97% of people in a room brandish weapons, I act in self-preservationist ways where possible! 97% of the world says they are accountable to God or God's Law of some type... I want to extend Pascal's wager to say when a Atheist says, "So what? Hundreds of religious people told me there's a Hell after death, screw 'em... I know NOTHING about death other than that there is a cessation of visible function so it must mean nothing... oh, well..." that they are being the "idiots God made" on the other thread! Smile
So . . . no evidence then?
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12-02-2013, 11:49 AM
RE: Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
Quote:Now I cannot offer proof God exists just as you cannot offer proof God doesn't exist but I can offer evidence that God exists.
Can does not imply will. Jesus wasn't an idiot when He told His followers they have to be discerning of their time. For example, I can spin out hundreds of pieces of data or I can tell you where to get the evidence for yourself. If I tell you where to get the evidence for yourself, specifically the PRECISE evidence you're asking about that is OVERWHELMING evidence that "proves" the truth, will you do it? The answer you give is conditional, of course, so think carefully before you respond... thanks.
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12-02-2013, 01:00 PM
RE: Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
(12-02-2013 11:49 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:Now I cannot offer proof God exists just as you cannot offer proof God doesn't exist but I can offer evidence that God exists.
Can does not imply will. Jesus wasn't an idiot when He told His followers they have to be discerning of their time. For example, I can spin out hundreds of pieces of data or I can tell you where to get the evidence for yourself. If I tell you where to get the evidence for yourself, specifically the PRECISE evidence you're asking about that is OVERWHELMING evidence that "proves" the truth, will you do it? The answer you give is conditional, of course, so think carefully before you respond... thanks.
I will happily check your sources if you provide them. I will not simply take your word that you have evidence, you have to make some effort to show that you do actually have some or I have no reason to believe you.
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12-02-2013, 01:55 PM
RE: Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
My source is God. I spoke with Him this morning, and He told me to tell you that He is awaits your discussion with Him and is available to you specifically this afternoon.
Please recall my words, "If I tell you where to get the evidence for yourself, specifically the PRECISE evidence you're asking about that is OVERWHELMING evidence that "proves" the truth, will you do it?"
I'm glad that you're not taking my word that I have evidence, as you can get directly with my source to confirm. My source is God, He exists, and I both spoke with Him and heard from Him this morning.
Thanks!
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12-02-2013, 02:03 PM
RE: Commonly Used Debate Arguments for Dummies
(12-02-2013 01:55 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  My source is God. I spoke with Him this morning, and He told me to tell you that He is awaits your discussion with Him and is available to you specifically this afternoon.
Please recall my words, "If I tell you where to get the evidence for yourself, specifically the PRECISE evidence you're asking about that is OVERWHELMING evidence that "proves" the truth, will you do it?"
I'm glad that you're not taking my word that I have evidence, as you can get directly with my source to confirm. My source is God, He exists, and I both spoke with Him and heard from Him this morning.
Thanks!


You do realize that I can't take you seriously. Your internal mental and emotional state is not evidence to anyone but you.

Why are you here? What do you hope to accomplish? I doubt anyone will be converted to your brand of Christianity by your proselyting.

Are you here to "testify"? Are you here to improve your debating skills? (If so, you're failing.)

You have become repetitive and boring.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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