Communism as a Religion debate
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02-11-2011, 12:05 PM
 
Communism as a Religion debate
Is Communism as a religion?

I got into a debate with a close pal of mine yesterday that had me at a loss. A loss for anything logical to say as his clams were astonishingly insane. Especially coming from a guy who’s got a BS Engineering degree from Perdue with a very high GPA.

Well, he’s a fundie. And we get to talking politics and we go on and on. I start bringing up the insanity of the “Obama the Muslim” claim and how I feel (and still feel) that Muslim is code word for the dreaded N word.
He said he don’t think he’s Muslim or Christian..but a Communist. It caused me to stop and question myself for a second………………..then….

I asked him a second time “You mean to tell me that you think Communism is a religion?” and he said YES! Then he went on this typical Christian blathering about how even Capitalism can be considered a religion based on what JC and the Sunshine Band said in the bible. Even GREED can be a religion, he remarked over and over. I sat like a deer in headlights at such proclamations.

At this point I ran dangerously close to losing a close pal as I could not help but laugh out loud and tell him that claim is INSANE. Later he went on about how I called him INSANE. I told him I did no such thing but told him what he was saying was insane……..then he got into silly semantics about how that’s the same thing (totally derailing the topic).

What I find stupefying is that when I get into debates with many of these fundies….they simply don’t know the meaning of words. Just that simple! The Palinization of this Nation is complete. Smart people saying the most insane things. I literally was at a loss as to what to say. When you can’t agree on simple textbook definition of words….what do you have? I’ll tell you…you have Pure nonsense.

I really left this discussion with a heavy heart as this guy I care for dearly but seems to make no sense despite his stellar education. Boggles the mind!


Just had to share….

Denicio
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02-11-2011, 04:28 PM
RE: Communism as a Religion debate
It is getting worse than just a Palinization at this point..

The leader of polls for republican presidential candidates right now in Herman Cain is becoming a master of demonstrating how one can take pride in not knowing the meaning of words or terms.

He says he is pro-life, then says he doesn't believe the government should force people to not being able to choose if they want an abortion or not... aka Pro-choice.

He said he didn't have a settlement on his sexual harassment charge. Then states he just recalls it being an out of court agreement, exactly what a settlement is.

It's sad that isn't the cream of the crop when rising in the polls now is Newt "I fear Obama is leading the country on a path that will make it a Secular Islamic State" Gingrich and Rick Perry has affirmed pride in not knowing facts.

The whole appeal to fundies and other ultra-conservatives by acknowledging to not know truth as a positive is the new endgame.

Communism is so far from religion to think anyone could say it is one is ridiculous. Yet I give it a few more weeks before we hear that exact claim stated by a republican presidential candidate.
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02-11-2011, 04:41 PM
 
RE: Communism as a Religion debate
(02-11-2011 04:28 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Communism is so far from religion to think anyone could say it is one is ridiculous.

The question is: are we talking about Communism, as it is laid out in theory, or are we talking about the so-called communist states (the old USSR and Eastern Europe), because the 2 have nothing to do with each other. Sea details at the “Travellers’ Tales” thread.

If we are talking about the second (I will spell it with small ‘c’ hereafter), then ‘communism’ and religion do have a lot in common. Both demanded absolute loyalty (religion was practically banned under ‘communism’), both appealed to emotions rather than reason, both were full of contradictions, both dealt harshly with dissenters. In religion you were supposed to have faith in god, in ‘communism’ you were supposed to have faith in the ‘dictatorship of the proletariat’. Both in religion and in ‘communism’ you were supposed to represent the ‘people’ (god’s or Marx’s), except you were never a ‘people’ yourself. Remarkable similarities, indeed, which is no surprise: both were designed to enslave the people, you included.
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02-11-2011, 05:21 PM
RE: Communism as a Religion debate
For a fundie he seems to be astonishingly ignorant of Acts 4-5 where the apostles attempted to set up one of the first societies based on the creed "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." (Of course, it rapidly collapsed due to the greed of Ananias and Sapphira.) That shit didn't come from Karl Marx, it came from the earliest followers of Jesus. Next time tell him to read his fucking bible.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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02-11-2011, 07:14 PM
RE: Communism as a Religion debate
Religious organizations get involved in politics. By the time this happens, the church has already been well established and well corrupted - at the top echelons, if not all the way through. Once religious leaders have political power, they influence law-making and civil custom; force their own ideology on the population and try to entrench their power by excluding other religions.

Because this has happened so often in history, people may think the relationship is reciprocal: that political ideology can become religious. If you are tempted to think that, first you need to separate the idea from the organization; the what from the how. Although human organizations tend to similar structure and exhibit similar bahaviour, they do not necessarily have similar precepts, origins and purposes.

The purpose of religion is to fill the spiritual need for a role and meaning in the universe, beyond our practical, physical lives - and usually beyond death. One might even posit that most or all religion is aimed at short-circuiting death. Religion has one or more otherworldly, immortal entities (like Mithra, Jehovah or FSM) at its core. This divinity demands faith in its reality, obedience to its wishes, some ritual show of devotion at regular intervals, and votive gifts (candles, gutted chickens, flowers, myrrh...) Deities are characters, not concepts: the faithful are required to have a personal, emotional relationship with their god(s); to be dependent and humble. This is true whether the religion has any intermediaries (priests, etc.) or not; whether it has a book or not; whether it has a dedicated building or sacred grove or circle of stones, whether worship is public or private.

A political idea is about how to organize society; how to get the work done; how to share out the resources; how to cope with antisocial activity; how to select leaders and enact laws. A political organization consists entirely of mortal human beings with no supernatural attributes and only earthly powers.
This doesn't prevent a country having symbols - flags and uniforms, songs and slogans, impressive architecture to house its governing body, elaborate books of theory and law, memorials and celebrations and solemn procedures that take place at mandated intervals. But they are all concerned with this visible, palpable, controllable plane of existence.

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
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03-11-2011, 06:22 PM
RE: Communism as a Religion debate
Hey, Denicio.

Communism ain't a religion.

That notion is the result of a misunderstanding of the nature of religion.

It's funny because I normally encounter Atheists who say that everything from Communism to Capitalism to belief in the Invisible Hand are "religion-like". It's like saying dogs, humans and blue whales are cat-like. We're not. We're all mammals.

I see what you mean about the difference between an idea and a person being insane. But you must admit, it was slightly insensitive of you. I'm not saying he should have flown off the handle, but I can see his point of view.

I got nothing for ya in terms of solution. Communism isn't a religion any more than a vulture is a parakeet. If he is unwilling to understand that, well, people are often obtuse. C'est la vie.

BTW - Good call on the Muslim-Nigger link. The racism directed at Obama is disgraceful.

Peace and Love and Empathy

Matt
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06-11-2011, 09:39 PM
RE: Communism as a Religion debate
I'm thinking... Zat can do my thinking here. Big Grin

Communism still kinda - anti-American. Wink

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07-11-2011, 05:33 AM
 
RE: Communism as a Religion debate
(06-11-2011 09:39 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Communism still kinda - anti-American.

Anti-which-American?

Are we talking about Communism or communism? Theory or practice?

PS. I think "Anti-American" is the most "Aniti-Most-American" expression I have ever heard! Undecided
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07-11-2011, 05:48 AM (This post was last modified: 07-11-2011 06:09 AM by Filox.)
RE: Communism as a Religion debate
Communism is a social, political and economic movement that aims at the establishment of a classless, moneyless and stateless communist society structured upon common ownership of the means of production.

Religion is a collection of cultural systems, belief systems, and worldviews that establishes symbols that relate humanity to spirituality and, sometimes, to moral values. Many religions have narratives, symbols, traditions and sacred histories that are intended to give meaning to life or to explain the origin of life or the universe.

So, no, communism has nothing to do with religions, in fact, most countries that had communism didn't allow religions, or made it difficult for them to act openly.

That "friend" of yours is retarded if he does not know a difference between religion and political movement. If he ever says Obama is a communist, then you should kick his sorry ass until he bleeds. I would send him to some communist, or at least post-communist country, so that he can see for himself what it means. I HATE when people (usually Americans) throw words like "communism" around and yet they have NO IDEA about the concept of the word, or how it is to live under communism. Tell him he should be ashamed of himself. And for your sake, don't surround yourself with friends like that.

For you who think that USA is going toward communism, I feel sorry for you. Being a socially enlightened and wanting to give the HEALTH care to everybody is not communistic but human thing to do. It should be normal, not labeled as "communistic", that is just wrong, retarded, ignorant and very, very dangerous, you will se why it is dangerous when you get sick and they throw you out of the hospital, because you don't have enough money. Assholes!

BTW, the message that Jesus preached was COMMUNISM! He was a true communist, tell that to your fundie friend.

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I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours.
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07-11-2011, 05:49 AM (This post was last modified: 07-11-2011 05:51 AM by houseofcantor.)
RE: Communism as a Religion debate
(07-11-2011 05:33 AM)Zatamon Wrote:  
(06-11-2011 09:39 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Communism still kinda - anti-American.

Anti-which-American?

Are we talking about Communism or communism? Theory or practice?

This American. I don't like it, but I admit I ain't scholar on this topic. Last time this topic showed up in my information processing there was a girl (yeah, there's always a girl Tongue) who seemed to know what she was talking about - she claimed to be Communist, seemed to work for her.

My fellow Americans, some of 'em... get kinda ignorant on this topic.

Theory? Duh, whassat? Tongue

Practice is fail. China is APRC, inc. on a village mentalitity... don't know what's gonna happen over there, I'm hoping for "slowly."

Theory ain't much better, but I ain't exactly a scholar...
(07-11-2011 05:33 AM)Zatamon Wrote:  PS. I think "Anti-American" is the most "Aniti-Most-American" expression I have ever heard! Undecided

Yeah, it is. Gotta be American to get away with it.

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