Community Policy
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29-08-2012, 05:47 PM
RE: Community Policy
(29-08-2012 04:59 PM)kim Wrote:  
(29-08-2012 04:25 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  At most, I think it may be beneficial to have a "be nice" rule in the intro section, and perhaps a note making it clear that once you leave the intro section, you are entering at your own risk.

"... a "be nice" rule in the intro section, and perhaps a note making it clear that once you leave the intro section, you are entering at your own risk." ~

And hey, let's be careful out there. There be drunken pirates and vulgar hairless talking monkeys about.




As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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29-08-2012, 06:58 PM
Community Policy
Just like Bucky insists our theist n00bs define what god they are talking about, we need to have a community understanding of what a troll is. As Jeff mentioned, some first time posts seem like trolling because they are so outrageous sounding, but you know what? There are people who believe some outrageous things. Some folks have mentioned Bishadi. I agree with part of Dom's assessment that he likes to play games and goad a response, but I don't call him a troll because I believe he believes the shit he's arguing about. As a member, I couldn't get behind moderating someone accused of being a troll who is just stupid.

As far as jerky comments go, I was unaware that I was presenting that image except for when I direct my jerky comments at another jerk in a community policing way. If I've come across as a jerk in other instances, I publicly apologize for that and will change the filters on my social interactions, as that is not a quality I want to put out there.

If by troll we mean someone who is making inflammatory and derogatory statements, and even abusive like calling a 16 year old girl a cunt, then we still need to have a clear definition of what we mean by harassment and bullying. I don't want Hughsie's sister called names, but I still want to call Hughsie a cunt because he is one. I'd say I harassed ArcticSage when he was here, but he was anti-Semite dipshit who deserved to be mocked. Back to the idea of community policing.

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have acted that way as Admin because, like when I was a pastor, it's a role I take seriously and don't want to bring a bad name to the position.

So I think this is a great discussion and I look forward to implementing any stellar ideas that come from it. But let's not just have blanket statements about no bullying or no trolling. We need to be very clear about what it is we intend to curtail, as well as be very clear about consequences.

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29-08-2012, 07:01 PM
RE: Community Policy
(29-08-2012 06:58 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Just like Bucky insists our theist n00bs define what god they are talking about, we need to have a community understanding of what a troll is. As Jeff mentioned, some first time posts seem like trolling because they are so outrageous sounding, but you know what? There are people who believe some outrageous things. Some folks have mentioned Bishadi. I agree with part of Dom's assessment that he likes to play games and goad a response, but I don't call him a troll because I believe he believes the shit he's arguing about. As a member, I couldn't get behind moderating someone accused of being a troll who is just stupid.

As far as jerky comments go, I was unaware that I was presenting that image except for when I direct my jerky comments at another jerk in a community policing way. If I've come across as a jerk in other instances, I publicly apologize for that and will change the filters on my social interactions, as that is not a quality I want to put out there.

If by troll we mean someone who is making inflammatory and derogatory statements, and even abusive like calling a 16 year old girl a cunt, then we still need to have a clear definition of what we mean by harassment and bullying. I don't want Hughsie's sister called names, but I still want to call Hughsie a cunt because he is one. I'd say I harassed ArcticSage when he was here, but he was anti-Semite dipshit who deserved to be mocked. Back to the idea of community policing.

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have acted that way as Admin because, like when I was a pastor, it's a role I take seriously and don't want to bring a bad name to the position.

So I think this is a great discussion and I look forward to implementing any stellar ideas that come from it. But let's not just have blanket statements about no bullying or no trolling. We need to be very clear about what it is we intend to curtail, as well as be very clear about consequences.

Way to take all of the fun out of Hellbound, Preacher.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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29-08-2012, 10:52 PM
RE: Community Policy
I think it all depends on how thick your skin is. Some peeps get emotional, some don't give a rats and you have all the ones in-between so it's very hard to know where to draw the line. I personally think that all 'nasty' people should be totally ignored as those types only live for the reaction you give them.
So I say stay away from those types (if you know who they are) if you take things to heart or rip them a new one if you think you can handle it. If you feel you're being bullied maybe PM a mod or vet to get advice or support.
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30-08-2012, 02:06 AM
RE: Community Policy
I find it pretty sad, that this topic seems to come up repeatedly, which shows that it is not just one person that has a problem with this, but still, it is being played down.
Remember MidnightKat last week?
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...he-trolls?
Haven't seen her since. And it was not an over reaction, her first thread was not controversial or anything, she asked a legitimate question and what happened?
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...ee-thinker
Just a few quotes:
(24-08-2012 03:40 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Usually atheist babies get eaten before age 2 so I'm afraid I don't have much advice to give. Blush
(24-08-2012 03:43 PM)Chas Wrote:  I thought we're only supposed to eat theists' babies. Sadcryface
(24-08-2012 03:47 PM)Vosur Wrote:  Welcome to the real world, buddy. Evil_monster
(24-08-2012 03:48 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  They all taste the same after a while.
That's the first answers she got, and that is the best example of trolling. In this case all guys that are normally great members of this community, but here, for some reason very uncool. And I could understand her reaction very well. If she is not coming back, I understand that as well.
Such behaviour doesn't give a good impression, especially on a good topic, which for a change, is no a topic we had 20 times already.

Disclaimer for the above: I like you guys, this is just an example.

Not everyone likes how the trolling issue is being handled right now, see how many pages in we are, see how many pages she old topic lasted. Mabe it is really time to think about a solution.
If it is about moderation, yes, get a mod who is happy to be a "troll checker", define moderation guidelines to deal with it and still do the case by case basis thing. It is not as complecated and time consuming as it sounds. It just needs about half an hour for the admins to formulate that stuff, and maybe a day or two in your intern mod forum (or where ever you do your intern talking) to clear up any questions arising.
Yes, it is totally worth it, yes you have to check if someone is really a troll. That takes like 5 minutes at a time (no, not under estimating this, I've done it myself for years). If someone or something is noticable, just start a thread internal and colledt to see if that is just your subjective feeling or if the other mods and admins receive it the same way.



(29-08-2012 04:39 PM)lucradis Wrote:  Excuse reason. You say tomato I say tomatoe. Don't discount soneones opinion as an excuse please.
Well, it's my opinion to call it an excuse. But if you like it better in flowry words, say it is a very weak argument.

(29-08-2012 06:58 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  As far as jerky comments go, I was unaware that I was presenting that image except for when I direct my jerky comments at another jerk in a community policing way. If I've come across as a jerk in other instances, I publicly apologize for that and will change the filters on my social interactions, as that is not a quality I want to put out there.
Didn't want to offend you, was just an example. Didn't say that you should change or anything, everyone gives jerky comments every now and then. You just popped into my head first.

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30-08-2012, 07:31 AM
RE: Community Policy
(29-08-2012 04:11 PM)Leela Wrote:  I am with Dom here, sorry.
I have a huge problem with troll-only people. I voiced my concern about it in the past, it was turned into an Egor-discussion back then. Dom voices her concern now, it is nearly being turned into a Bishadi-discussion.
That he is a dickhead, we all know that.
The userbase here is growing fast, and very noticable.
This forum is not as small as it seems. It is huge in it's userbase and it is growing. The active users are becoming more and more.
And trolls are a problem.
Not only for newbies in the forum who do not know who is really just making fun and who is a troll for example a newbie here might not make a difference between one of Erxomai's jerky posts and one of Bishadi's and just see both and leave because it seems like so many are just trolling. I find that quite sad.
I nearly left this forum at some point because it seemed like a really big problem for me, it still does and I pulled back from a lot of discussions by now, just for the reason that I know where the trolls post. But you can't expect that from newbies.
I think a well thought out trolling rule with clear guidelines for mods on how to enforce them would be a step, but when I expressed that in the past, and even explained in detail what it could be done like, it was argued away and never even given a thought about.

I think the trolling is my only problem with this forum. It is not like it was said in the past, which was along the lines of "we can't make a anti-trolling rule because we would have to ban half of you guys as well, same right for all..." No, wrong!
You are the ones to define the rule, so define it properly.
People who seriously contribute well to this forum, give it a good spirit etc and they give a jerk comment every now and then are not trolls. An asshole that does raise interesting discussions despite being an asshole is not a troll but simply stupid.
Someone who comes to this forum and trolls from post one and never does anything else but trolling is clearly a troll and not welcome... at least that is how I understand it.

I don't' think I could have voiced my opinion better than you. I agree totally with you.

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30-08-2012, 07:34 AM
RE: Community Policy
I wanted to respond to Dom's OP yesterday but life got in the way...

She obviously makes a good point, that upon entry here - newbies should not be flamed. Not saying that people can't continue to be assholes, jeebus knows we have enough of us in here... Wink

Wouldn't a simple solution, without voting on bylaws and such, be to just tweak the policy for the introductions thread that there is no meanness/flaming allowed (or something like that?)?

After basic introductions, all bets are off...I like the idea of not scaring off newby atheists and this place, with our cast of characters, is the best place to hold good conversations on issues I've found. The forum, and you, are and should be considered a great resource for those that need a place to escape and learn Smile

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30-08-2012, 07:56 AM
RE: Community Policy
What's weak is blowing something off as an excuse because you don't agree with it, and don't feel like counting it as a valid argument. Shits weak.

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30-08-2012, 08:15 AM
RE: Community Policy
What is so hard in just asking him to stop flaming you? That is what I don't understand.

And while I agree that making such restricting rules would probably turn some members away, I am sure that immature trolls would also be a large turn-off for many people.

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30-08-2012, 08:25 AM
Community Policy
(30-08-2012 02:06 AM)Leela Wrote:  I find it pretty sad, that this topic seems to come up repeatedly, which shows that it is not just one person that has a problem with this, but still, it is being played down.
Remember MidnightKat last week?
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...he-trolls?
Haven't seen her since. And it was not an over reaction, her first thread was not controversial or anything, she asked a legitimate question and what happened?
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...ee-thinker
Just a few quotes:
(24-08-2012 03:40 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Usually atheist babies get eaten before age 2 so I'm afraid I don't have much advice to give. Blush
(24-08-2012 03:43 PM)Chas Wrote:  I thought we're only supposed to eat theists' babies. Sadcryface
(24-08-2012 03:47 PM)Vosur Wrote:  Welcome to the real world, buddy. Evil_monster
(24-08-2012 03:48 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  They all taste the same after a while.
That's the first answers she got, and that is the best example of trolling. In this case all guys that are normally great members of this community, but here, for some reason very uncool. And I could understand her reaction very well. If she is not coming back, I understand that as well.
Such behaviour doesn't give a good impression, especially on a good topic, which for a change, is no a topic we had 20 times already.

Disclaimer for the above: I like you guys, this is just an example.

Not everyone likes how the trolling issue is being handled right now, see how many pages in we are, see how many pages she old topic lasted. Mabe it is really time to think about a solution.
If it is about moderation, yes, get a mod who is happy to be a "troll checker", define moderation guidelines to deal with it and still do the case by case basis thing. It is not as complecated and time consuming as it sounds. It just needs about half an hour for the admins to formulate that stuff, and maybe a day or two in your intern mod forum (or where ever you do your intern talking) to clear up any questions arising.
Yes, it is totally worth it, yes you have to check if someone is really a troll. That takes like 5 minutes at a time (no, not under estimating this, I've done it myself for years). If someone or something is noticable, just start a thread internal and colledt to see if that is just your subjective feeling or if the other mods and admins receive it the same way.



(29-08-2012 04:39 PM)lucradis Wrote:  Excuse reason. You say tomato I say tomatoe. Don't discount soneones opinion as an excuse please.
Well, it's my opinion to call it an excuse. But if you like it better in flowry words, say it is a very weak argument.

(29-08-2012 06:58 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  As far as jerky comments go, I was unaware that I was presenting that image except for when I direct my jerky comments at another jerk in a community policing way. If I've come across as a jerk in other instances, I publicly apologize for that and will change the filters on my social interactions, as that is not a quality I want to put out there.
Didn't want to offend you, was just an example. Didn't say that you should change or anything, everyone gives jerky comments every now and then. You just popped into my head first.

If this is what trolling is, then I guess I never knew that before. If we are talking about stopping people from being smartasses then this is going to be a completely different place. I do understand, however, if we want to warn people (myself included) not to be smartasses to the newcomers, that could be arranged.

As far as Midknight Kat, she didn't leave. She even created another thread yesterday or the day before.

(BTW, when you quoted my second response, you conveniently edited out the rest of my post which was longer and addresses her question).

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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