Compassion -- how much can we afford?
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07-09-2011, 08:19 AM
RE: Compassion -- how much can we afford?
"Yes" would be a sympathetic answer. It's even possible, depending on what the defective person had done, that you could put them to work on restitution. (Which is what first offenders should be sentenced to anyway.)
Sympathy means feeling for someone; empathy means feeling with someone.
An empathetic answer might be more difficult. If i had been impelled by some concentration of bad proclivities and experience to rape and kill children - to enjoy raping and killing children - would i want to be repaired? If i were somehow cured of the enjoyment and able to see my past deeds from a healthy (normal, societal standard) perspective, would i want to go on living? Doubtful.

If you could repair Dick Cheyney .... Then what?

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
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07-09-2011, 08:32 AM
RE: Compassion -- how much can we afford?
(07-09-2011 08:19 AM)Peterkin Wrote:  "Yes" would be a sympathetic answer. It's even possible, depending on what the defective person had done, that you could put them to work on restitution. (Which is what first offenders should be sentenced to anyway.)
Sympathy means feeling for someone; empathy means feeling with someone.
An empathetic answer might be more difficult. If i had been impelled by some concentration of bad proclivities and experience to rape and kill children - to enjoy raping and killing children - would i want to be repaired? If i were somehow cured of the enjoyment and able to see my past deeds from a healthy (normal, societal standard) perspective, would i want to go on living? Doubtful.

If you could repair Dick Cheyney .... Then what?

You bring up a good arguement here.........would the person consider that they needed help, would they recognise that what they was doing was deemed by the rest of society as "bad"........could we "cure" these people???

However again........these people are the symptoms of the problem........trying to help them and stop them doing what they enjoy is still a punishment (to them anyway)

So for me.........the compassion spreads to beyond the symptom and to the problem that is creating it......My compassion would be aimed at everybody on the earth In trying to eradicate the problem instead of dealing with the symptoms.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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07-09-2011, 10:34 AM
RE: Compassion -- how much can we afford?
We're all trying for compassion in our social contracts, constitution and law. Pretty much every legal system has some provision for mitigating circumstances: pleas like "guilty with an explanation", "diminished capacity" and "extreme provocation" are taken into consideration at trial.

The countries that invest more resources in prevention* save more on enforcement and punishment, and thus have more left to reinvest in prevention - a very nice feedback mechanism when it's working.
Countries whose leadership and population understand human nature and their own makeup - that is, the physical, environmental and cultural factors that characterize the society - can formulate appropriate preventive measures.
People who don't understand themselves, or deny reality, or treat will and evil as if these were external entities, rather than aspects of human behaviour, or have two or three opposing major forces operating at once, must be content with an ineffective, inconsistent, clumsy and expensive legal apparatus.
Trying to graft one type of correctional system onto another type of social organization is doomed to failure.

(*This also holds true for illness, obesity, debt and pollution.)

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07-09-2011, 10:48 AM
RE: Compassion -- how much can we afford?
Reading this thread it seems the collective opinion of posters here that there's no such thing as choice and personal responsibility, we are all boats without oars being carried by the current. Out of curiosity, why so many of you subscribe to this?

English is not my first language. If you think I am being mean, ask me. It could be just a wording problem.
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07-09-2011, 11:36 AM
 
RE: Compassion -- how much can we afford?
(07-09-2011 10:48 AM)sy2502 Wrote:  Reading this thread it seems the collective opinion of posters here that there's no such thing as choice and personal responsibility, we are all boats without oars being carried by the current. Out of curiosity, why so many of you subscribe to this?

Sorry, Sy, but I consider this another misrepresentation of my arguments.

I know you disagree and I respect that.

However, I do not want to repeat myself and I think I used up all my arguments in this debate -- a hell of a lot more than what could be summarized in one short sentence.

So, unless somebody says something I have not replied to yet, I regretfully bow out of this debate.
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07-09-2011, 12:13 PM
RE: Compassion -- how much can we afford?
(07-09-2011 11:36 AM)Zatamon Wrote:  
(07-09-2011 10:48 AM)sy2502 Wrote:  Reading this thread it seems the collective opinion of posters here that there's no such thing as choice and personal responsibility, we are all boats without oars being carried by the current. Out of curiosity, why so many of you subscribe to this?

Sorry, Sy, but I consider this another misrepresentation of my arguments.

I know you disagree and I respect that.

However, I do not want to repeat myself and I think I used up all my arguments in this debate -- a hell of a lot more than what could be summarized in one short sentence.

So, unless somebody says something I have not replied to yet, I regretfully bow out of this debate.

Ok buddy, you really need to do a reality check on your attitude here. If you feel I didn't get what you are saying, it really doesn't cost you a great deal to clarify it, that's what conversations are all about. Every time I either disagree with you or I try to see if I understood what you are saying, you throw a tantrum and storm off like a toddler. I have given you the benefit of the doubt, but seriously, grow up!

English is not my first language. If you think I am being mean, ask me. It could be just a wording problem.
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07-09-2011, 03:30 PM
 
RE: Compassion -- how much can we afford?
Sy, I am sure you have heard of diminishing returns.

You and I have reached that point a while ago.

Smile
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07-09-2011, 04:02 PM
RE: Compassion -- how much can we afford?
(07-09-2011 03:30 PM)Zatamon Wrote:  Sy, I am sure you have heard of diminishing returns.

You and I have reached that point a while ago.

Smile

I have no idea what you are talking about, but I will appreciate if you will direct your rude and irrational comments somewhere else. And please quit it with the stupid smileys. A rude and immature post doesn't get any less rude and immature just because you put an emoticon at the end of it.

English is not my first language. If you think I am being mean, ask me. It could be just a wording problem.
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07-09-2011, 04:35 PM
 
RE: Compassion -- how much can we afford?
(07-09-2011 04:02 PM)sy2502 Wrote:  
(07-09-2011 03:30 PM)Zatamon Wrote:  Sy, I am sure you have heard of diminishing returns.

You and I have reached that point a while ago.

Smile

I have no idea what you are talking about, but I will appreciate if you will direct your rude and irrational comments somewhere else. And please quit it with the stupid smileys. A rude and immature post doesn't get any less rude and immature just because you put an emoticon at the end of it.

Smile
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07-09-2011, 05:33 PM (This post was last modified: 07-09-2011 05:38 PM by Peterkin.)
RE: Compassion -- how much can we afford?
(07-09-2011 10:48 AM)sy2502 Wrote:  Reading this thread it seems the collective opinion of posters here that there's no such thing as choice and personal responsibility, we are all boats without oars being carried by the current. Out of curiosity, why so many of you subscribe to this?

Whose collective opinion was that? It's certainly not what i said. Don't think it's what bemore said. Obviously not what Zatamon said. How many of us subscribe to what? That there are causes for prevailing conditions and that those conditions limit the range of possible actions - yes. Boats, no. Oars, no.

Everything happens for a reason in a context. Context, causes and outcomes can be changed by responsible social action. But first, someone has to object to the status quo.

We have a crappy criminal justice system, because we - collectively, as a society - don't care enough to make a good one. We avenge the poor Petit family, because we didn't care enough to save them. It's easier - not more mature - to be righteously outraged than to be compassionate and responsible.

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