Comprehensive immigration reform
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11-07-2013, 11:51 PM
Comprehensive immigration reform
Immigration is the life-support to all civilizations . People come, people leave. The US was built on immigration, and it may sound 'cliche' , but it is indeed a melting pot. From the days of Irishmen seeking refuge from the great potato famine, to today where Hispanics are seeking better opportunities for work and education.Here is my idea on how to fix the immigration mess in the US .

Grant amnesty to the 11.2 million illegal immigrants, while speeding up the process for the individuals going through the legal procedures to become a citizen. Start a 10-year tax plan program set up for each individual immigrant. Let me explain the plan; Each person over the age of 18 and a source of income from ANY place(Private farm, fast-food,etc) must pay a flat tax to this program directly , totally separate from normal IRS procedures. 95 % of their taxes wold go to this program, 5% to the government . In turn, the government subsidizes the program by adding 5% into it, just as they give money to normal Welfare programs. After the 10 year time-period their taxes go through normal procedures. As a side advantage, the government will help promote jobs (Rail,Road construction ,etc) the already natural-born citizens and a majority for the immigrants.

I believe this is fair for both sides of the argument, and especially the side which believes they are stealing money and jobs from the natural-born citizens. Am I the only one seeing logic in this plan ?

Immigrants built this country.

" My friends. You bow to no one. " - Aragorn

"A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows. " — Samuel Clemens

Simple....buy low, sell high.

Life in Rivendell is nice .
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11-07-2013, 11:55 PM
RE: Comprehensive immigration reform
How do you arrive at the 95% figure ?
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12-07-2013, 12:03 AM
RE: Comprehensive immigration reform
(11-07-2013 11:55 PM)morondog Wrote:  How do you arrive at the 95% figure ?

A logical amount I believe , so the majority of the immigrants will be helping each other by paying that for all of their welfare needs. No exact formula.

" My friends. You bow to no one. " - Aragorn

"A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows. " — Samuel Clemens

Simple....buy low, sell high.

Life in Rivendell is nice .
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15-07-2013, 03:20 AM
RE: Comprehensive immigration reform
(11-07-2013 11:51 PM)WeasleyFromTheShire Wrote:  Each person over the age of 18 and a source of income from ANY place(Private farm, fast-food,etc) must pay a flat tax to this program directly , totally separate from normal IRS procedures. 95 % of their taxes wold go to this program, 5% to the government . In turn, the government subsidizes the program by adding 5% into it, just as they give money to normal Welfare programs. After the 10 year time-period their taxes go through normal procedures. As a side advantage, the government will help promote jobs (Rail,Road construction ,etc) the already natural-born citizens and a majority for the immigrants.

I believe this is fair for both sides of the argument, and especially the side which believes they are stealing money and jobs from the natural-born citizens. Am I the only one seeing logic in this plan ?

Immigrants built this country.

I disagree with most of your argumentation. You'd like to impose a tax on all newly immigrated after a regularisation if I got it correctly?
Isn't it unfair to impose a 10-year tax to people after they have become citizens and ought therefore have equal rights compared to 'normal' citizens? Furthermore, it seems to ignore the fact that some of these immigrants might possess skills and competences that can be used directly upon receiving full citizenship. There may be no need for language courses or welfare coupons for these people. Imposing an extra tax on them whilst giving welfare to stupid/lazy/reckless citizens seems a bit inappropriate. No two immigrants are alike, same goes for US citizens

A flat tax is also a less social for of tax as opposed to a progressive tax system. The administrative part is easier, but it has an unfair equity of distribution, especially for lower income classes.

The program you are proposing would require an extensive administration and run parallel to other programs. Cost efficiency?
You also seem to have madeup the percentages. I would like to see some studies or extra explanation on the how and why.

Will the government really use this money for public works? Just think of the extensive legislative issues and complicated budgets that would emerge from your plan. And if you mainly use those jobs for immigrants, wouldn't you in some way force them into a specific type of less skilled labour with fewer advancement options? This looks alot like a colonial system.

You propose speeding up procedures for immigrants here going through the legal process. How? A larger administration? Harsher procedures? Or just give them ID-cards without too much fuss?
Wouldn't strict procedures be unfair when you give amnesty to the illegal ones?

And about the argument of stealing jobs. That's also a nice one. I can imagine immigrants hiding in the bushes, murmuring: "Look, there's an American, let's steal his job!"
The responsibility for 'stealing jobs' isn't that of the immigrants. It's greedy companies that want to risk prosecution by hiring immigrants with wages below the minimum standard. The immigrants often live in horrid conditions as their wage is insufficient to maintain an acceptable standard of living.
if you want less jobs 'stolen', make sure everyone gets a minimum wage and enforce that. use a progressive tax system so that hiring low wage workers becomes more interesting than moving production to a third world country or risking prosecution by having a hidden warehouse filled with illegal workers.


My reaction wasn't to debunk your opinion, but to ask for clarification and to be able to point out certain difficulties. It's true that immigration causes problems, but there isn't an easy way to solve it in 1-2-3.
And don't forget what you did to the native Americans.

"Infinitus est numerus stultorum." (The number of fools is infinite)
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26-07-2013, 10:53 PM
RE: Comprehensive immigration reform
(15-07-2013 03:20 AM)Thammuz Wrote:  
(11-07-2013 11:51 PM)WeasleyFromTheShire Wrote:  Each person over the age of 18 and a source of income from ANY place(Private farm, fast-food,etc) must pay a flat tax to this program directly , totally separate from normal IRS procedures. 95 % of their taxes wold go to this program, 5% to the government . In turn, the government subsidizes the program by adding 5% into it, just as they give money to normal Welfare programs. After the 10 year time-period their taxes go through normal procedures. As a side advantage, the government will help promote jobs (Rail,Road construction ,etc) the already natural-born citizens and a majority for the immigrants.

I believe this is fair for both sides of the argument, and especially the side which believes they are stealing money and jobs from the natural-born citizens. Am I the only one seeing logic in this plan ?

Immigrants built this country.

I disagree with most of your argumentation. You'd like to impose a tax on all newly immigrated after a regularisation if I got it correctly?
Isn't it unfair to impose a 10-year tax to people after they have become citizens and ought therefore have equal rights compared to 'normal' citizens? Furthermore, it seems to ignore the fact that some of these immigrants might possess skills and competences that can be used directly upon receiving full citizenship. There may be no need for language courses or welfare coupons for these people. Imposing an extra tax on them whilst giving welfare to stupid/lazy/reckless citizens seems a bit inappropriate. No two immigrants are alike, same goes for US citizens

A flat tax is also a less social for of tax as opposed to a progressive tax system. The administrative part is easier, but it has an unfair equity of distribution, especially for lower income classes.

The program you are proposing would require an extensive administration and run parallel to other programs. Cost efficiency?
You also seem to have madeup the percentages. I would like to see some studies or extra explanation on the how and why.

Will the government really use this money for public works? Just think of the extensive legislative issues and complicated budgets that would emerge from your plan. And if you mainly use those jobs for immigrants, wouldn't you in some way force them into a specific type of less skilled labour with fewer advancement options? This looks alot like a colonial system.

You propose speeding up procedures for immigrants here going through the legal process. How? A larger administration? Harsher procedures? Or just give them ID-cards without too much fuss?
Wouldn't strict procedures be unfair when you give amnesty to the illegal ones?

And about the argument of stealing jobs. That's also a nice one. I can imagine immigrants hiding in the bushes, murmuring: "Look, there's an American, let's steal his job!"
The responsibility for 'stealing jobs' isn't that of the immigrants. It's greedy companies that want to risk prosecution by hiring immigrants with wages below the minimum standard. The immigrants often live in horrid conditions as their wage is insufficient to maintain an acceptable standard of living.
if you want less jobs 'stolen', make sure everyone gets a minimum wage and enforce that. use a progressive tax system so that hiring low wage workers becomes more interesting than moving production to a third world country or risking prosecution by having a hidden warehouse filled with illegal workers.


My reaction wasn't to debunk your opinion, but to ask for clarification and to be able to point out certain difficulties. It's true that immigration causes problems, but there isn't an easy way to solve it in 1-2-3.
And don't forget what you did to the native Americans.

This plan is to neither discriminate by taxing a certain group nor to solve the flow of illegal immigrants, It applies only to the current 11.2 million illegal immigrants who are to be granted "amnesty" . They broke the law, they pay a certain tax to fully become American citizens since they could not wait like everybody else and go through the necessary procedures. We are doing them a favor, and they pay it back. Also many US citizens do abuse the welfare system from a lack of proper work-ethic, those people should lose that help and it be introduced to immigrants and job producing.

Yes an influx of that many immigrants at once will hurt the job market for natural-born citizens, especially within the part-time job sector. Many of the illegals do not posses higher-income job skills, those that do go through the proper paperwork .
I could go on as for the amount that do violent crimes upon naturalized citizens, that's for another debate.

As for "What 'I' did to the native Americans" , I myself am about 10 percent native American, the rest being mainly from the British Isles(Ireland, England,Wales) . I did not do a thing to them. My ancestors perhaps married some and reproduced, some perhaps killed them as they were colonizing. I only know one is for sure. The US did what all other more-advanced nations have done since the middle-ages, take over lesser-advanced nations. England is the most guilty of this. This did not give them the right to take away as much as they did to the natives, as they have very little if any say in anything other than voting.

" My friends. You bow to no one. " - Aragorn

"A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows. " — Samuel Clemens

Simple....buy low, sell high.

Life in Rivendell is nice .
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