Con't Jeremy E (for exited) Walker Assertions about Ignatius of Antioch
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04-07-2014, 01:53 PM
Con't Jeremy E (for exited) Walker Assertions about Ignatius of Antioch
John Wrote: Just a quick take on these "quotes". As for most everything presented by Jeremy, this list is copy pasta from another apologetics source. In the case of Ignatius, his letters exist in three versions, commonly called the short, medium and long recensions. The long recension is universally considered to be a revision of the medium recension, the best candidate f...[SNIP]...n. Not a quotation. On second count we have zero references of the NT from a man who died in 107 AD, that is, if this man died in 107 AD, and if he ever even existed. Back to the drawing board.]]
Exactly , but really I call bullshit on the ENTIRE thing. http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/l...ecnum=3836 There is NOT ONE reference to any chapter and verse, (of supposedly extant texts)


You mean you don't think the long recension quotes from the NT? If that's the case, then I have to disagree on that. Not all the quotes on the list are compelling but quite a few are, and there were a bunch of other verses that I recognized from the gospels which the above list didn't include. It's not a matter of chapter and verse (modern inventions), but agreement in wording and, preferably, allusion to the source. Moreover, I don't see a problem with a 4th century revisionist quoting from the NT, quite to the contrary.

(Today 03:50 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote: but most important, they clearly reflect a much much later, more fully developed theology. There is NO WAY someone writing around the end of the First Century wrote that shit. Not a chance.


I fully agree.

(Today 03:50 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote: From the site John referenced above : "Obviously, if a writing quotes from a book in the New Testament, that gives evidence that the New Testament book was written prior to the writing that quotes from it."

That is absolutely false. There is no reason it could not be the other way around, OR both could be (and we know DID) quote a third source.
There are many examples. http://www.truthbeknown.com/mithra.htm

John : "Just to be clear, I don't agree with this source that Jeremy used. And yes, I agree with you that the case is not as simple as the site states, i.e. 'quotation' in the form of similar wording is only correlation, not causation; additional support is needed for the latter, e.g. allusion to the source, systematic one way tampering, evidence etc ..."

I wasn't referring to the NT. We agree completely.
Surprising they used what we would consider deceit ? Not at all. They admitted it.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...rly-church

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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04-07-2014, 01:59 PM
RE: Con't Jeremy E (for exited) Walker Assertions about Ignatius of Antioch
I am pretty content to never discuss Jeremy Walker, or his idea, ever again. I feel like everything that could be said about him has already been said, in three different ways at least, plus more.
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04-07-2014, 02:01 PM (This post was last modified: 04-07-2014 02:04 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Con't Jeremy E (for exited) Walker Assertions about Ignatius of Antioch
We (John and I) were talking about Ignatius and how the letters ascribed to him had to be forgeries. I haven't seen that discussed before. Sorry if it has. I could care less what Germey says about anything. But the Ignatius letters are still purported to be authentic in some circles. One glance proves they can't be.

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04-07-2014, 02:03 PM
RE: Con't Jeremy E (for exited) Walker Assertions about Ignatius of Antioch
My apologies. I thought you were countering a point Jeremy made.
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