Concentration camp guard sentenced to 5 years in prison
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
13-05-2011, 10:40 PM
RE: Concentration camp guard sentenced to 5 years in prison
(13-05-2011 10:36 AM)GassyKitten Wrote:  
(12-05-2011 08:39 PM)cfhmagnet Wrote:  Justice is a complex concept with varied interpretations/applications...
No, it's not.
justice n. 1) fairness. 2) moral rightness. 3) a scheme or system of law in which every person receives his/her/its due from the system, including all rights, both natural and legal. (Continues)
.........So if it's not complex, what do we have law schools that take years to get degrees for? Fairness isn't a notion of justice, and it doesn't take a lawyer to know, any decent parent can tell you that. Here are 7 notions of justice just off the top of my head, and I won't link them for you because you seem good enough with an internet search...and you apparently won't find them overly complex anyway. 1. Based on law 2. Based on morality 3. Based on desserts/consequences 4. Based on promise keeping 5. justice vs injustice, as in impartiality vs favoritism 6. justice vs injustice, based not on (im)partiality but on total equality and 7. Justice as utility. Not that any of those things could be construed as complex concepts.

As far as the man goes, I already said I wouldn't excuse him for what he did. It's a crying shame. Would I be upset about the death of my family? Absolutely. I think it would potentially destroy me, even up to the point where I wouldn't be around in 40 years to see the man go down for the crime. But if I say that it did happen, and I expand your time line to 65 years after it happened that they catch him, yes, I would like to think that I wouldn't care what happened. In 65 years I think I can come to terms with anything that hasn't killed me. Rather than dwelling on decades of past hurt, I would like to find ways to prevent others from dealing with it. When I say I'm much more vested in the problems of today, I mean it. The religious right wants to take away a woman's right to her womb. What's next, her right to her vagina? The passing of the "You shouldn't be dressed like that" law? And several phenomenally great minds have been warning us for years, if we don't start worrying about our natural resource problem, we may not survive to learn about these atrocities in a history class much longer. We are getting spied on in increasing intensity EVERY YEAR. I keep seeing more stop light cameras and hearing more horror stories of planted GPS tracking devices. Excuse me if I have other, more current and pressing things to worry about, and maybe a little karuna built up. Let me pose a question to you, which would you choose? Acting today, to find a prevention for the AIDS virus so you don't have to contract it, or contracting it and chasing a cure for 65 years?

"An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind." -Mahatma Gandhi

Something something something Dark Side
Something something something complete
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-05-2011, 01:39 PM
RE: Concentration camp guard sentenced to 5 years in prison
(13-05-2011 10:40 PM)cfhmagnet Wrote:  Let me pose a question to you, which would you choose? Acting today, to find a prevention for the AIDS virus so you don't have to contract it, or contracting it and chasing a cure for 65 years?

It is a totally and completely preposterous question. It also has absolutely nothing to do with this situation. You think the authorities sat on their hands and waited until he was 91 before they acted? If they could have nailed him in 1945, they would have nailed him in 1945. They first starting investigating him in the early 1980s and his various trials have dragged on for almost 2 decades.

Secondly, chasing this guy is not taking away from other efforts. This may come as a surprise to you but the people who chase Nazi war criminals and the people who try to cure infectious diseases and do all the other things you mention are actually not the same people. Focusing on one does not preclude the other.

Finally, if you see no need to spend any time on this, then don't read the thread and change the channel when it comes up on the news. That is your right. What is not your right is to tell this guys victims and their families that this is a waste of your time because to you it is nothing but ancient history. If it was my family, I'd tell you to fuck off.

Come to think of it: it was my family. So, really, fuck off.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-05-2011, 02:14 PM
RE: Concentration camp guard sentenced to 5 years in prison
(14-05-2011 01:39 PM)BnW Wrote:  Finally, if you see no need to spend any time on this, then don't read the thread and change the channel when it comes up on the news. That is your right. What is not your right is to tell this guys victims and their families that this is a waste of your time because to you it is nothing but ancient history. If it was my family, I'd tell you to fuck off.

Come to think of it: it was my family. So, really, fuck off.

I lost alot of family in the concentration camps too (or during "interrogation"). German speaking Belgians that were considered 'Volksdeutscher' against their will, drafted for the Reich.

There's a saying here that goes along the lines of:"Even the best german has stolen a horse". I don't think the wounds will ever heal for persons that lived during the war. And I can understand them...

Some people won't have peace until the last nazi dies...

"Infinitus est numerus stultorum." (The number of fools is infinite)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-05-2011, 02:23 PM
RE: Concentration camp guard sentenced to 5 years in prison
I was actually going to delete my last two lines after thinking it over but now that they are embedded in another quote I guess I'm stuck with them sitting there. Oh well.

Anyway, for me, this is not so much a personal thing; I think we should be pursuing everyone involved with the genocide in Cambodia as well, as one example. And, this case is not an abstraction; this is someone who was directly involved and not just a spectator to an atrocity. But, to claim that because we could not get him sooner we should just let it go is, I think, a bit insulting to the victims of these types of crimes. All that does is send the message of: if you can wait it out long enough, all is forgotten.

Genocide as perpetrated by the Nazis was really a once in history event but that does not change the fact that while others have been less industrious about it, there are plenty of groups who have done, and continue to do, basically the same thing. These people need to understand that they will never be absolved of their crimes no matter how long they hide or how much time has passed. I think continuing to pursue him and hold him accountable sends a very clear message to all the thugs in the world: there is no statute of limitations on your accountability.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-05-2011, 04:03 PM
 
RE: Concentration camp guard sentenced to 5 years in prison
(13-05-2011 10:40 PM)cfhmagnet Wrote:  Let me pose a question to you, which would you choose? Acting today, to find a prevention for the AIDS virus so you don't have to contract it, or contracting it and chasing a cure for 65 years?
That doesn't even make sense, quite frankly.
It's irrelevant to the OP, as well.

Maybe you meant to say something related to the Hitler regime and the 1000 year plan.
So posing this question then. If you could cure AIDS by murdering a 6 hour old newborn, would you do it? The only condition being you have to use your bare hands. No weapons, whatever. Do it, and AIDS is cured.

Don't do it, and the research continues as a search for the cure remains elusive, while cocktails of pharmaceuticals now permit a person to live longer, but still remain as one facing certain death eventually.


See, the Nazi's and everyone they recruited into their vision for Germany and the world, thought that by killing those who were unfit to live in the new Germany, they'd succeed in rearing a pure race that would rule for a thousand years.

Justice isn't hard to figure out. What takes years of study in law, is finding the inroads and the nuances that lead to justice. So that the guilty are punished and the innocent are not swallowed up. Justice is a means of saving the world.

A 91 year old, who escaped man's justice for over 6 decades was sentenced to life regardless, because he knew full well what he'd done. He hid himself away, his true self, because he knew the world's passions to this moment fire at the thought of a Nazi enabler like himself, responsible for 28,000 ghosts that reside behind his back, pointing at he who is responsible for their demise!
John Demjanjuk lived free in the world, but justice insured through the memories, and the headlines he read as Nazi's were found living abroad and were still brought before the courts to face the charges that fit their crimes, would imprison him forever. The older he got the more certain he was he'd escaped. And now, in his 91st year of life, he'll live what's left of it as a prisoner of a political party that installed a system that built prisons to keep those the world is better off without, behind walls. So that the guilty are not breathing the same air as the innocent, the free.
He is now with what the Nazi's considered of their prisoners of war, the dregs of society. The mongrels worthy of extermination because they were an impure race. Now he knows what it's like to live his life confined, controlled, given permission to do everything. Hell, when he dies permission will even be needed to retrieve his body from custody.And if he has no one who gives a damn, he'll be buried with the indigent, the poor, the prisoners who even set free by death, are still in custody of the State that wielded the shovel that turned the earth, that laid his cold corpse to rest as property of the State!

Sure enough, your contemporary life gives you enough to worry about here and now. Truth is, we're all living some political power's vision.




Quote: "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind." -Mahatma Gandhi
Really really bad choice of quotes, with respect to the topic of this thread. Sad


The advice that the Mahatma offered their coreligionists when faced with the Nazi peril: they should commit collective suicide. If only the Jews of Germany had the good sense to offer their throats willingly to the Nazi butchers' knives and throw themselves into the sea from cliffs they would arouse world public opinion, Gandhi was convinced, and their moral triumph would be remembered for "ages to come." If they would only pray for Hitler (as their throats were cut, presumably), they would leave a "rich heritage to mankind." (More)
Quote this message in a reply
14-05-2011, 04:14 PM
RE: Concentration camp guard sentenced to 5 years in prison
(14-05-2011 02:23 PM)BnW Wrote:  I was actually going to delete my last two lines after thinking it over but now that they are embedded in another quote I guess I'm stuck with them sitting there. Oh well.

Sorry, too late Tongue

You made a good point, however. Maybe the choice of your words wasn't the most appropriate, but I don't think people will hold it against you.


Peace! Wink

"Infinitus est numerus stultorum." (The number of fools is infinite)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
18-05-2011, 01:09 PM (This post was last modified: 18-05-2011 01:16 PM by shiranl.)
RE: Concentration camp guard sentenced to 5 years in prison
(12-05-2011 06:33 PM)cfhmagnet Wrote:  This one hit close to home, as he lived in my area before being deported. I feel bad for him. Even if I suppose he did what they say he did, I feel bad for him. I won't excuse him for it if he did it, but the man is 91 for crying out loud. Just what good will it do locking up this senior citizen? Is it comforting somebody, this new pound of flesh on the scale? I'll bet somewhere somebody was high-fiving somebody else and saying "Yeah! We got the nazi bastard!" Real good job loser, you took down a 91 year old. Try taking on someone your own age.

I cry out loud for the children he helped to murder who won't ever be 91 year old.

As for the OP's questions- It is never too late to do justice. And I would probably be dead anyhow, since I'm Jewish. So If I would cooporate or not, isn't really relevant for me.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: