Concept of Hell
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
13-03-2012, 06:50 PM
Concept of Hell
Another thing I'd like to get your opinions on.

The concept of Hell is that those who are not saved (I'm talking Christians here, but in general, I guess as well, sort of) or commit enough sins should face eternal punishment. Is that a correct statement? I haven't researched the topic enough to get a great definition on it, but the words that stand out to me are "eternal punishment", which I know I hear often.

I would argue that nothing you do as a human being is worthy of eternal punishment. The concept of infinity is much too large to grasp for a human.

If I murder someone, I might receive a long (relative to human thinking) punishment, but the concept of infinite punishment is insane.

Hitler does not deserve eternal punishment. If I tortured everyone in the most horrible way on this planet, all 7 billion or so of us, for 1000 years, that does not warrant eternal punishment.

Sure, you could say, just for our purposes, ten thousand years of harsher punishment per person (that's a bit much as well, well at least, I'm not going to go into how much punishment you can say exactly, but that's not my point) that you tortured. You could even say a million years for each person, you could say as much as you want. Still, that is incredibly finite, infinite is on a whole new level.

Take that time duration, then increase it a thousand fold. Put that new number to its own power. Take the factorial (ok, getting nerdy here Tongue). My point is, you are much too finite to ever be able to do anything worthy of something infinite.

Obviously, this is Hell. I don't see much you can do on Earth, especially for those that die as kids and go to Heaven, that deserves eternal reward either.

This is my original logical fallacy in the concept of Hell. I hope there is something you all can contribute to make this argument better. I personally like using original arguments, but I will use others if they apply to my situation in the debate well enough.

Thanks to all!

"Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned" - Anonymous
I am glad to live where there is no God, for I am moral, and mortal; I do not wish to worship He who crafts an immoral immortality.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-03-2012, 07:07 PM
RE: Concept of Hell
some say that hell is being away from god willingly for all eternity, because one judges his/her own soul not worthy of god presence. But that's as fucked up as any other "explanation"

[Image: sigvacachica.png]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-03-2012, 07:14 PM
RE: Concept of Hell
There is a fundamental problem with what you say. You are applying sense, reason and logic to a religious concept, the 2 don't mix well.

As regards hell, the proposition of infinite torture for a finite crime is ridiculous. I have also equally found the idea of eternal bliss equally fucked up though. If there was a literal heaven as we would assume when discussing a literal hell, then surely heaven would become hell. You go and be with friends and family, what do you do after 5 or 6 hundred years, you would be bored shitless. I think that by the time you got to 5000 years you would be nuts and heaven would most likely have become hell for you. If not then how about 50'000 years or 1'000'000 years etc. Personally I would rather just die when the time comes.

I would also ask how the suffering is experienced, as we have left our physical bodies so you would think our senses die with this. This of course is granting them the courtesy of assuming some sort of soul exists, rather than our sense of self dying along with the brain.

There is of course the problem defining god. Most religions that subscribe to belief in such bollocks also define god as just and loving. They will also imply or state a mixture of the omnipotence, omniscience or omnipresence of their god and possibly some other things that end in ence (except sense that is).

So we have a just and loving god, he is powerful and all knowing.
Such a god would not create such a place. If he does he is not just and loving.

Sorry if this is not very coherent, it is late and I have drank far too much of some bubbly pink stuff. I must now get some sleep and will try to post something more succinct tomorrow.

"Belief means not wanting to know what is true"
Friedrich Nietzsche
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Eternal's post
13-03-2012, 07:17 PM
RE: Concept of Hell
In hell, you get no spaghetti for eternity. It's true. So you better praise FSM... then again, there is always IPU that might get pissed off and hoof you to death forever or until she gets tired. It's hard to make a choice really. Then of course there are the gods that will punish you no matter what you do or not. There is the deist god that is pretty much like reality except a god of the gaps, so you still don't exist, but feel comfort in knowing.. well, no, no real comfort in deism either. Kali is pretty hot (depending on depictions). I wouldn't mind getting tortured a bit by her. She can take my head any day... wait. What were we talking about?

Defy gravity... stand up. Drinking Beverage
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-03-2012, 07:25 PM
RE: Concept of Hell
I never realised Kali gave head before. Interesting, I may have to convert to hinduism.

"Belief means not wanting to know what is true"
Friedrich Nietzsche
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-03-2012, 07:32 PM
RE: Concept of Hell
Hell = without god. How is one without zero? Don't happen.

[Image: klingon_zps7e68578a.jpg]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes houseofcantor's post
13-03-2012, 07:33 PM (This post was last modified: 13-03-2012 07:37 PM by craniumonempty.)
RE: Concept of Hell
(13-03-2012 07:25 PM)Eternal Wrote:  I never realised Kali gave head before. Interesting, I may have to convert to hinduism.

Not so sure she would give it (well, unless you have someone dress up as her), but she would probably take it (as in remove it from your shoulders)... I like strong goddesses. What can I say?

Defy gravity... stand up. Drinking Beverage
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-03-2012, 07:41 PM
RE: Concept of Hell
(13-03-2012 07:32 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Hell = without god. How is one without zero? Don't happen.

I thought someone here wrote that we go to hell for god's enjoyment? How can he enjoy our suffering if he's not there?

[Image: dobie.png]

Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-03-2012, 08:11 PM
RE: Concept of Hell
How can one be without god if god is everywhere?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-03-2012, 08:27 PM (This post was last modified: 13-03-2012 08:31 PM by Eternal.)
RE: Concept of Hell
(13-03-2012 07:41 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(13-03-2012 07:32 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Hell = without god. How is one without zero? Don't happen.

I thought someone here wrote that we go to hell for god's enjoyment? How can he enjoy our suffering if he's not there?

That was Egor, as he and his wife are the only Veridicans I don't think it matters much what he thinks. He can be worth debating with just for fun though.

That being said, not being there is the least of the problems. I mean you have a god that creates a place to punish us for eternity for a finite crime. According to Egor he takes pleasure in this. Also according to veridicanism the only thing needed to go to heaven is to give yourself to Jesus. It doesnt matter if you have been a serial rapist for 40 years. Just make sure you return to Jesus a little bit before you die and heaven awaits, whilst the man who dedicates his life to helping others and charity but happens to be an atheist/muslim/hindu/buddhist would go straight to hell for eternity.

I have said it before elsewhere and I will probably say it again. If that is their god then they can go fuck themselves, then go fuck their god.
(13-03-2012 07:33 PM)craniumonempty Wrote:  Not so sure she would give it (well, unless you have someone dress up as her), but she would probably take it (as in remove it from your shoulders)... I like strong goddesses. What can I say?

You would like my wife then, she is both strong and a goddess. Not sure she will dress as Kali though, not after that stormtrooper fiasco last week.

"Belief means not wanting to know what is true"
Friedrich Nietzsche
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Eternal's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: