Concept of Hell
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14-03-2012, 05:49 PM
RE: Concept of Hell
Alright kingchosen. I started to read some of it a while ago, but it's so long! It's not easy finding what you want from 100 pages worth of posts.

"Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned" - Anonymous
I am glad to live where there is no God, for I am moral, and mortal; I do not wish to worship He who crafts an immoral immortality.
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14-03-2012, 05:55 PM
RE: Concept of Hell
(14-03-2012 05:49 PM)nsguy1350 Wrote:  Alright kingchosen. I started to read some of it a while ago, but it's so long! It's not easy finding what you want from 100 pages worth of posts.

Like I said, just let me know. I can usually find it.

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14-03-2012, 11:46 PM
RE: Concept of Hell
(14-03-2012 11:42 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(14-03-2012 03:31 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Oops! As I suspected! You have no idea who wrote the gospels. How can you possibly assume they contain "the Gospel of Jesus Christ?" as you don't know who the authors were, or what their relation to Jesus was?

Because of what they say.

Quote:Oh dear! Your book has no bibliography! So your "gospel" consists entirely of your own opinions about a book written by you don't know who! Is it any wonder you are rarely taken seriously in this forum?

I’m not sure how many ways I can tell you this: The Veridican Gospel of Jesus Christ is an inspired synthesis of the four New Testament Gospels and the Gospel of Thomas. It is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, it’s not a book of opinions.

Quote:Why, pray tell, would I or anyone else, be interested in your bizarre tirades, particularly as you have no legitimate sources to back them up? Your sole source for legitimacy is your brashness, and, as I think you have discovered, brashness does not grant you creedence in a forum such as this.

Why do you do that? Why do you try to gather other people around you to make a point? Like now, you’re speaking again for the entire forum, as if somehow they elected you to be their speaker.

Be that as it may, I can’t tell you why you are interested in my tirades, but apparently you are, ‘cuz here we are discussing them.

Quote:Yes, I am a medical doctor. I have a science degree, plus a bachelor of medicine and surgery, so I have 3 degrees. I have also had 20 years experience helping my patients achieve health and happiness. I studied at the University of Tasmania ( the island at the bottom of mainland Australia).

I’m not sure how a medical doctor has any particular qualification in helping patients be “happy.” But I’ll leave that alone at this time. And to the readers: In Australia, the medical system is a bit different than the United States. I had to look it up, myself.
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Becoming_a_...Australia

I do find something disturbing, however: On your website you have a picture of you and your patient/girlfriend. In the U.S. that kind of relationship is unethical. And even if she's a former patient, why would you refer to her as a "patient"? Also, you say you share your anti-Christian beliefs with your patients; that, too, would be considered unethical in the U.S. You seem to have an issues with boundaries. I realize you're an atheist, but don't you feel you might be abusing the power you have over sick people to push an ideology that is better left out of the arena until they are well enough to make independent decisions?

Quote: I have spent 7 years worth of my spare time studying the history of the bible and early Christianity. I too have written a book. I have over 100 books in my bibliography, many of which I've read 3 or 4 times, plus many hundreds of web page references.

Wow. 3 or even 4! That’s great. And if you have written a book, where is it?

Quote: Despite this, I do not think my opinions are necessarily the truth.

Then why read it? Even you don’t think it’s true. All those books in your bibliography, some read multiple times, and you still can't find the truth. That's called being lost, my dear Tasmanian.

By the way, Kudos on the Tasmanian Devil, one of the most precious animals God ever put on this earth. Sleepy

[Image: Tasmanian-devil.jpg]

But I digress.

Quote:I present them to the public for consideration on their merits. I still have a lot to learn, and always will have, so am interested in everyone's opinions.

Well, my opinion is that if you don’t put your faith in Jesus Christ before you die, you will either be destroyed, or in your case, since you know better, be cast into hell.

(14-03-2012 09:53 AM)Dom Wrote:  Well, in my finite world, I cannot worship anyone I don't like. And, just assuming god actually exists, I sure don't like him at all.

What the hell does "like" have to do with anything? (no pun intended). Do you really think you have a choice in whether or not you will worship God? If God doesn't exist, you have no choice. If God does exist, you have no choice. God is God.

@ Kingschosen

Personallyl, I don't think the Calvanist revelation of God is accurate in regards to election, not if hell exists. And we know it does, because Jesus talks about it. I think election would make absolute sense except for hell. And perhaps we have to think beyond election because of it.

I have tried to address you on this, but you seem to want to avoid the discussion. The crux being: Can God make a freewill being?

My contention is that he can, even though that requires him to paradoxically relenquish omnipotentce and omniscience in the process, at least for that particular being.

I would assume Calvanists do not believe he can (which makes him incapable in that regard and therefore not omnipotent), or they believe he won't (in which case there is no love between man and God. In fact, humans end up with the spiritual force of a plant).

Hi Egor. Please tell me why you find the "gospel of Jesus Christ" so attractive. I am genuinely interested in your ideas if any of them are original, or if you can give me a good reason for why you hold them so dear.

In what way is your gospel different to, say, the King James versions of the gospels? Please explain why "your" gospel is "inspired." Do you believe you speak for god?

Your gospel, as best i inderstand, doesn't refer to the writings of Paul. I am interested why. Could you explain? What about the Old Testament?

As far as your repution on this forum is concerned...have a look at your number next to "reputation" on the top right of your screen. Have a read through any of the replies to your posts. People here do occasionally warm to you (particularly when you have a break from threatening them with hell), but you are hardly Mr Popular. That shouldn't stop you making a point, and in no way diminishes your right to do so, but does suggest you should have a good look at yourself. BTW, some people here don't like me either. I've tried to learn from them rather than threaten them.

My book will be published in a few months. Large chunks of it are on my website if you are interested.

I do think my book contains truth. However I am not brash enough to claim it is the absolute truth. It contains hundreds of ideas and historical facts, many of which are opinions, and it is the nature of history that it can be looked at in many different ways. I do not demand that readers believe what I write, because I respect their individuality too much for that.

I'm not lost. I just know enough to know I don't know everything.

I'm not sure whether you are genuinely concerned about me going to hell. To be honest, I have a sneaking suspicion you rather like the idea....although perhaps I am being unfair on you, because surely you are not that evil?

Ok.....please tell me , and anyone interested, about your message. Please leave out the threats of hell, and , if you can , leave out the stuff we've all heard a million times before. As you've written a whole book (congratulations!) you must have some original perspectives and i'd like to know what they are. Have you started a new church too? Many customers yet? Is it a full time job?

My girlfriend is not a patient. She is patient, because her partner has buried his nose in books about Christianity for the last 7 years. I do not try to preach to my patients about atheism.

If you don't think a doctor can help people be happy, you need to have a read about treatments for depression, the role of psychotherapy, pain relief, vitamins, omega 3's, exercise, zinc, magnesium and the list goes on.

I wonder do you ever read books about anything other than your own gospel?

Thanks for reminding me how to get a medical degree in Australia. If I ever decide to spend another 6 years full time at university and 6 years in post graduate training just to earn my degrees again, I now know where to start.
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15-03-2012, 01:01 AM
 
RE: Concept of Hell
(14-03-2012 11:46 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Hi Egor. Please tell me why you find the "gospel of Jesus Christ" so attractive. I am genuinely interested in your ideas if any of them are original, or if you can give me a good reason for why you hold them so dear.

Because when you read them, it seems as if they’ve been written for today, not 2000 years ago. Also, the depths of the symbolism, metaphor, the riddles and the parables are simply genius in nature. And they are miraculous. The Catholic Church should have burned them long before the common man ever read them, but they didn’t.

Also, the life of Jesus Christ is like no other. The concept of power he talks about is a godlike power, not any kind of human power. He was tough; he didn’t care what people thought of him; he spoke the truth and lived his life for the glory of God whom he considered his Father.

I could go on and on about this.

The only original existing Gospel is The Veridican Gospel of Jesus Christ. There are no original NT Gospels in existence, nor is there an original of The Gospel of Thomas. No one knows who wrote the NT Gospels, and The Gospel of Thomas is an obvious forgery. None of that matters, particularly, but in fact, in the world, the only original Gospel of Jesus Christ is The VGJC.

Quote:In what way is your gospel different to, say, the King James versions of the gospels? Please explain why "your" gospel is "inspired." Do you believe you speak for god?

God commanded me to do the synthesis back in 2005, and I did. I sat on it for years after that, and I published it just a couple of weeks ago. Every decision I made in creating the synthesis was in direct accordance with how God told me it should go. I heard from God in the creation of that Gospel in exactly the same way I have heard from Him all my life.

It is different than the King James in that it is a modern version of the Gospel. I won’t go into an entire dissertation on the creation of the King James Version. That would take up too much time and be way too academic to hold a readers interest—especially mine.

Quote:Your gospel, as best i inderstand, doesn't refer to the writings of Paul. I am interested why. Could you explain? What about the Old Testament?

The Old Testament is a Holy book the Jews and Christians use. Obviously, it provides an historical backdrop to the life of Jesus, but that’s it. The VGJC stands on its own. If one never had the OT, they would still receive the Gospel by reading it.
The letters of Paul, the writer of Hebrews, the letters of Peter, James, and John are just that: letters written by early Christians. I appreciate their commentary, but that’s all they are. One day, I will write a commentary on the VGJC, and that’s all it will be.

So, the OT is reference for the Gospel, and the NT letters are commentary on the Gospel, but the Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only thing that matters for salvation.

Quote:As far as your repution on this forum is concerned...have a look at your number next to "reputation" on the top right of your screen.

I know! It sucks. It used to be -17. I’ll have to try harder to be a dick to more people. ‘Cuz here’s the thing: If I’m really speaking the truth, I shouldn’t have a really good reputation in this forum, or in the world, for that matter. Jesus didn’t have a very good rep, did he?

In the immortal words of a supervisor I had in the Air Force back in the early 1980’s (he was a proud redneck from Alabama): “They can’t kick my ass, so who cares what they think.”

Words to live by.

Anyway, you were saying…

Quote:Have a read through any of the replies to your posts. People here do occasionally warm to you (particularly when you have a break from threatening them with hell),

I don’t want to wax arrogant here, but of course they warm to me. When someone like me tells someone they’re not going to hell, it tends to mean a lot to them.

Unfortunately, anyone who rejects Christ will go to hell. If I don’t tell them that—if I don’t tell them that, for Christ’s sake—where’s my love for them? What kind of man would I be if I let someone burn in hell because I wanted them to like me here on earth? My Father in heaven would hold me accountable for that. He sure would.

Mark, don’t you get it? I don’t have to be liked. I have God. All I have to do, all I want to do is what God wants me to do. That’s the secret of happiness.

It could be working for you to, if you'd wisen up a bit.

Quote:but you are hardly Mr Popular. That shouldn't stop you making a point, and in no way diminishes your right to do so, but does suggest you should have a good look at yourself. BTW, some people here don't like me either. I've tried to learn from them rather than threaten them.

When did I threaten anyone?

Quote:My book will be published in a few months. Large chunks of it are on my website if you are interested.

No way. I read books, not websites. When it’s available on Amazon, let me know and I’ll buy a copy and do a review for The Veridican.

Quote:I do think my book contains truth. However I am not brash enough to claim it is the absolute truth. It contains hundreds of ideas and historical facts, many of which are opinions, and it is the nature of history that it can be looked at in many different ways. I do not demand that readers believe what I write, because I respect their individuality too much for that.

I'm not lost. I just know enough to know I don't know everything.

Fair enough.

Quote:I'm not sure whether you are genuinely concerned about me going to hell. To be honest, I have a sneaking suspicion you rather like the idea....although perhaps I am being unfair on you, because surely you are not that evil?

I don’t want you to go to hell. I don’t want anyone to go to hell. I want people to see the truth and beauty of Jesus Christ and live out their potential on earth. I want them to find reasonable happiness now, and eternal happiness in the life to come.

But if you waste the time God has given you here and die rejecting Christ, then I’m all in with God, and you will deserve everything you get, and I’d cheer it like a touchdown.

But while you live; while there is still light, there is still time. And I will not give up hope. Your soul is worth the effort to God, and to me.

Quote:Ok.....please tell me , and anyone interested, about your message. Please leave out the threats of hell, and , if you can , leave out the stuff we've all heard a million times before. As you've written a whole book (congratulations!) you must have some original perspectives and i'd like to know what they are. Have you started a new church too? Many customers yet? Is it a full time job?

I am a Veridican. A Veridican is one who follows the life and teachings of Jesus Christ as recorded in The Veridican Gospel of Jesus Christ.

That’s it. That’s the only message. There is no Church.

As for customers, that’s a legitimate question I’d like to go on record about that now. I am a nurse. I make my living as an RN who specializes in psychiatry. I love doing that, but I also love publishing and writing. I will not be able to be a nurse forever. I write books and I offer them for sale. I intend to write a lot of books and offer them for sale. They are reasonably priced, and I believe they are a good value given the information they contain, and hopefully they intrigue the reader. I also hope my one and only novel entertains the reader and, in the end, maybe enlightens them a little about good and evil.

If I sell enough books, I can do this full time. If I sell enough books, a major publisher may buy out Black Spirit Publishing and distribute the books in ways I never could. God trained me to be a nurse, and he trained me to be a publisher. I will use those gifts to His greater glory, and I will do so for the rest of my life.

If you feel I’m ripping you off, don’t buy one of my books.

Quote:My girlfriend is not a patient. She is patient, because her partner has buried his nose in books about Christianity for the last 7 years. I do not try to preach to my patients about atheism.

Dude, I got that from your website. I didn’t make it up.

Quote:If you don't think a doctor can help people be happy, you need to have a read about treatments for depression, the role of psychotherapy, pain relief, vitamins, omega 3's, exercise, zinc, magnesium and the list goes on.

Okay, sure, if you mean happiness through better health, then fine. I see what you mean.

Quote:I wonder do you ever read books about anything other than your own gospel?

What do you think?

Quote:Thanks for reminding me how to get a medical degree in Australia. If I ever decide to spend another 6 years full time at university and 6 years in post graduate training just to earn my degrees again, I now know where to start.

Your welcome.
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15-03-2012, 04:38 AM
RE: Concept of Hell
(15-03-2012 01:01 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(14-03-2012 11:46 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Hi Egor. Please tell me why you find the "gospel of Jesus Christ" so attractive. I am genuinely interested in your ideas if any of them are original, or if you can give me a good reason for why you hold them so dear.

Because when you read them, it seems as if they’ve been written for today, not 2000 years ago. Also, the depths of the symbolism, metaphor, the riddles and the parables are simply genius in nature. And they are miraculous. The Catholic Church should have burned them long before the common man ever read them, but they didn’t.

Also, the life of Jesus Christ is like no other. The concept of power he talks about is a godlike power, not any kind of human power. He was tough; he didn’t care what people thought of him; he spoke the truth and lived his life for the glory of God whom he considered his Father.

I could go on and on about this.

The only original existing Gospel is The Veridican Gospel of Jesus Christ. There are no original NT Gospels in existence, nor is there an original of The Gospel of Thomas. No one knows who wrote the NT Gospels, and The Gospel of Thomas is an obvious forgery. None of that matters, particularly, but in fact, in the world, the only original Gospel of Jesus Christ is The VGJC.

Quote:In what way is your gospel different to, say, the King James versions of the gospels? Please explain why "your" gospel is "inspired." Do you believe you speak for god?

God commanded me to do the synthesis back in 2005, and I did. I sat on it for years after that, and I published it just a couple of weeks ago. Every decision I made in creating the synthesis was in direct accordance with how God told me it should go. I heard from God in the creation of that Gospel in exactly the same way I have heard from Him all my life.

It is different than the King James in that it is a modern version of the Gospel. I won’t go into an entire dissertation on the creation of the King James Version. That would take up too much time and be way too academic to hold a readers interest—especially mine.

Quote:Your gospel, as best i inderstand, doesn't refer to the writings of Paul. I am interested why. Could you explain? What about the Old Testament?

The Old Testament is a Holy book the Jews and Christians use. Obviously, it provides an historical backdrop to the life of Jesus, but that’s it. The VGJC stands on its own. If one never had the OT, they would still receive the Gospel by reading it.
The letters of Paul, the writer of Hebrews, the letters of Peter, James, and John are just that: letters written by early Christians. I appreciate their commentary, but that’s all they are. One day, I will write a commentary on the VGJC, and that’s all it will be.

So, the OT is reference for the Gospel, and the NT letters are commentary on the Gospel, but the Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only thing that matters for salvation.

Quote:As far as your repution on this forum is concerned...have a look at your number next to "reputation" on the top right of your screen.

I know! It sucks. It used to be -17. I’ll have to try harder to be a dick to more people. ‘Cuz here’s the thing: If I’m really speaking the truth, I shouldn’t have a really good reputation in this forum, or in the world, for that matter. Jesus didn’t have a very good rep, did he?

In the immortal words of a supervisor I had in the Air Force back in the early 1980’s (he was a proud redneck from Alabama): “They can’t kick my ass, so who cares what they think.”

Words to live by.

Anyway, you were saying…

Quote:Have a read through any of the replies to your posts. People here do occasionally warm to you (particularly when you have a break from threatening them with hell),

I don’t want to wax arrogant here, but of course they warm to me. When someone like me tells someone they’re not going to hell, it tends to mean a lot to them.

Unfortunately, anyone who rejects Christ will go to hell. If I don’t tell them that—if I don’t tell them that, for Christ’s sake—where’s my love for them? What kind of man would I be if I let someone burn in hell because I wanted them to like me here on earth? My Father in heaven would hold me accountable for that. He sure would.

Mark, don’t you get it? I don’t have to be liked. I have God. All I have to do, all I want to do is what God wants me to do. That’s the secret of happiness.

It could be working for you to, if you'd wisen up a bit.

Quote:but you are hardly Mr Popular. That shouldn't stop you making a point, and in no way diminishes your right to do so, but does suggest you should have a good look at yourself. BTW, some people here don't like me either. I've tried to learn from them rather than threaten them.

When did I threaten anyone?

Quote:My book will be published in a few months. Large chunks of it are on my website if you are interested.

No way. I read books, not websites. When it’s available on Amazon, let me know and I’ll buy a copy and do a review for The Veridican.

Quote:I do think my book contains truth. However I am not brash enough to claim it is the absolute truth. It contains hundreds of ideas and historical facts, many of which are opinions, and it is the nature of history that it can be looked at in many different ways. I do not demand that readers believe what I write, because I respect their individuality too much for that.

I'm not lost. I just know enough to know I don't know everything.

Fair enough.

Quote:I'm not sure whether you are genuinely concerned about me going to hell. To be honest, I have a sneaking suspicion you rather like the idea....although perhaps I am being unfair on you, because surely you are not that evil?

I don’t want you to go to hell. I don’t want anyone to go to hell. I want people to see the truth and beauty of Jesus Christ and live out their potential on earth. I want them to find reasonable happiness now, and eternal happiness in the life to come.

But if you waste the time God has given you here and die rejecting Christ, then I’m all in with God, and you will deserve everything you get, and I’d cheer it like a touchdown.

But while you live; while there is still light, there is still time. And I will not give up hope. Your soul is worth the effort to God, and to me.

Quote:Ok.....please tell me , and anyone interested, about your message. Please leave out the threats of hell, and , if you can , leave out the stuff we've all heard a million times before. As you've written a whole book (congratulations!) you must have some original perspectives and i'd like to know what they are. Have you started a new church too? Many customers yet? Is it a full time job?

I am a Veridican. A Veridican is one who follows the life and teachings of Jesus Christ as recorded in The Veridican Gospel of Jesus Christ.

That’s it. That’s the only message. There is no Church.

As for customers, that’s a legitimate question I’d like to go on record about that now. I am a nurse. I make my living as an RN who specializes in psychiatry. I love doing that, but I also love publishing and writing. I will not be able to be a nurse forever. I write books and I offer them for sale. I intend to write a lot of books and offer them for sale. They are reasonably priced, and I believe they are a good value given the information they contain, and hopefully they intrigue the reader. I also hope my one and only novel entertains the reader and, in the end, maybe enlightens them a little about good and evil.

If I sell enough books, I can do this full time. If I sell enough books, a major publisher may buy out Black Spirit Publishing and distribute the books in ways I never could. God trained me to be a nurse, and he trained me to be a publisher. I will use those gifts to His greater glory, and I will do so for the rest of my life.

If you feel I’m ripping you off, don’t buy one of my books.

Quote:My girlfriend is not a patient. She is patient, because her partner has buried his nose in books about Christianity for the last 7 years. I do not try to preach to my patients about atheism.

Dude, I got that from your website. I didn’t make it up.

Quote:If you don't think a doctor can help people be happy, you need to have a read about treatments for depression, the role of psychotherapy, pain relief, vitamins, omega 3's, exercise, zinc, magnesium and the list goes on.

Okay, sure, if you mean happiness through better health, then fine. I see what you mean.

Quote:I wonder do you ever read books about anything other than your own gospel?

What do you think?

Quote:Thanks for reminding me how to get a medical degree in Australia. If I ever decide to spend another 6 years full time at university and 6 years in post graduate training just to earn my degrees again, I now know where to start.

Your welcome.

Hi Egor, I've had a look at your website and read the above. It is becoming clear to me we are world's apart in most ways, so I seriously doubt we can learn from each other. I don't agree with anything you have written, or your agenda, so I won't wish you good luck, but I do hope you have a happy life. Let's just call it a day for a while , ok?
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15-03-2012, 09:00 AM
 
RE: Concept of Hell
Hell is for children!



(sorry, had to go there)

When that pat benatar song came out (and i was a kid) i seriously thought it was an ANTI children song! I was like "What the fuck is wrong with this chick? What does she have against kids?"

D
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15-03-2012, 11:16 AM
 
RE: Concept of Hell
(15-03-2012 04:38 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Hi Egor, I've had a look at your website and read the above. It is becoming clear to me we are world's apart in most ways, so I seriously doubt we can learn from each other. I don't agree with anything you have written, or your agenda, so I won't wish you good luck, but I do hope you have a happy life. Let's just call it a day for a while , ok?

[Image: wrestling.jpg]

Can someone say, "Tap out."
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15-03-2012, 12:30 PM
RE: Concept of Hell
(15-03-2012 11:16 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(15-03-2012 04:38 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Hi Egor, I've had a look at your website and read the above. It is becoming clear to me we are world's apart in most ways, so I seriously doubt we can learn from each other. I don't agree with anything you have written, or your agenda, so I won't wish you good luck, but I do hope you have a happy life. Let's just call it a day for a while , ok?

[Image: wrestling.jpg]

Can someone say, "Tap out."

Egor, God has tasked me with asking you why you used "hairy, sweaty, interlocked muscular men" when you Google searched for that picture, rather than the words "pro wrestling." He's not sure he can forgive you for all the imagery you browsed through.

Can someone say, "Clear your browser history"?

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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