Condemning "Innocence of Muslims"
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24-09-2012, 09:34 AM
RE: Condemning "Innocence of Muslims"
(24-09-2012 09:23 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Just an observation:

Many of the same people who say the non-extremist Muslims should be condemning the violent actions of the extremists also think this film shouldn't be condemned by our leaders.

Interesting.

Wrong is wrong no matter how big or small.
Why should it be condemned? Consider

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24-09-2012, 10:18 AM
RE: Condemning "Innocence of Muslims"
(24-09-2012 09:34 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(24-09-2012 09:23 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Just an observation:

Many of the same people who say the non-extremist Muslims should be condemning the violent actions of the extremists also think this film shouldn't be condemned by our leaders.

Interesting.

Wrong is wrong no matter how big or small.
Why should it be condemned? Consider
Because it obviously has no purpose except to be inflammatory and insulting. Instead of attempting to resolve anything it only contributes further to a problem that is badly in need of a resolution. I think being disrespectful to Islam as a whole is wrong which is different than politely expressing disagreement with the religion and backing it up with substantial arguments. Films such as this one only fan the flames of bigotry and hatred.

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24-09-2012, 12:28 PM
RE: Condemning "Innocence of Muslims"
(24-09-2012 10:18 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Because it obviously has no purpose except to be inflammatory and insulting. Instead of attempting to resolve anything it only contributes further to a problem that is badly in need of a resolution. I think being disrespectful to Islam as a whole is wrong which is different than politely expressing disagreement with the religion and backing it up with substantial arguments. Films such as this one only fan the flames of bigotry and hatred.
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Dear Impulse,
yes, it is obviously that this video has the purpose to be insulting.
But that does'nt matter anymore.
For a muslim, our whole livestyle is insulting and he will destroy it, if you give him the opportunity.
A muslim is insulted by the word islam-critic, woman's-right's, freethought, freespeach, cilvil-rights- and society.
A muslim is suposed to live under the sharia-law and koran.
If he can not live under these conditions, he is commanded to do everything necessary to inforce the koran and sharia-law.
He will even lie and steel and cheat.
He will also kill every man, woman and child who is on the opposite.
It is written in his book, you know?

This is the playground to solve the conflict.
Trying to expressing disagreement with the religion and backing it up with substantial arguments seems quite a difficulty, if your opponent's reaction to your argumentation is cutting your head off and burn your house to the ground, meanwhile sceaming: "Allah is great!"
But feel free to have a try, be my guest.

Yes, you are right, this issue badly needed a solution.
To be polite and respectfull are not the first things that comes to my mind, if i try to solve that problem.

Can you tell me, for what reason i should be respectfull to islam or a muslim.
Respect must be earned, by achieving of something good or great.
But we talking about a belief in an invisible big brother in the sky.
If i whould repect this idea, i whould now sitting in a church, praying.

The only thing, a muslim and me have in common is, we are both members of the same species.
Sometimes i wonder if he is one step closer to our evolutionary-ancestors than me.

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24-09-2012, 01:08 PM
RE: Condemning "Innocence of Muslims"
(24-09-2012 12:28 PM)Marco Krieger Wrote:  
(24-09-2012 10:18 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Because it obviously has no purpose except to be inflammatory and insulting. Instead of attempting to resolve anything it only contributes further to a problem that is badly in need of a resolution. I think being disrespectful to Islam as a whole is wrong which is different than politely expressing disagreement with the religion and backing it up with substantial arguments. Films such as this one only fan the flames of bigotry and hatred.
1

Dear Impulse,
yes, it is obviously that this video has the purpose to be insulting.
But that does'nt matter anymore.
For a muslim, our whole livestyle is insulting and he will destroy it, if you give him the opportunity.
A muslim is insulted by the word islam-critic, woman's-right's, freethought, freespeach, cilvil-rights- and society.
A muslim is suposed to live under the sharia-law and koran.
If he can not live under these conditions, he is commanded to do everything necessary to inforce the koran and sharia-law.
He will even lie and steel and cheat.
He will also kill every man, woman and child who is on the opposite.
It is written in his book, you know?

This is the playground to solve the conflict.
Trying to expressing disagreement with the religion and backing it up with substantial arguments seems quite a difficulty, if your opponent's reaction to your argumentation is cutting your head off and burn your house to the ground, meanwhile sceaming: "Allah is great!"
But feel free to have a try, be my guest.

Yes, you are right, this issue badly needed a solution.
To be polite and respectfull are not the first things that comes to my mind, if i try to solve that problem.

Can you tell me, for what reason i should be respectfull to islam or a muslim.
Respect must be earned, by achieving of something good or great.
But we talking about a belief in an invisible big brother in the sky.
If i whould repect this idea, i whould now sitting in a church, praying.

The only thing, a muslim and me have in common is, we are both members of the same species.
Sometimes i wonder if he is one step closer to our evolutionary-ancestors than me.
I believe there are only 2 ways the situation with the extremists can ever reach a resolution. The first is to obliterate all Muslims so we are sure we got all extremists. But obviously, that's not acceptable so the only other way is to reach some sort of peaceful agreement. Countries and groups of people on all sides of the issue need to reign in their own and stop the violence. In the peaceful atmosphere that would result, then compromise must be reached.

Yes, I'm well aware that this sounds like fantasy, but I believe there is no other possibility except the first one that I mentioned. Therefore, fantasy or not, anything else that points us away from that goal is working against the resolution. That is why we MUST be respectful no matter how disrespectful they are. A continuous volley of insults and violence only perpetuates the whole conflict. I do think there is a time and place for disrespect. Obviously, acts of war can't be left unanswered. It's unfortunate, but in that case return violence will often be necessary. But there is no good reason for posting or supporting videos like the one that this thread is about or doing other things that have no purpose except to pour salt in the wounds. And I think one way we can "reign in our own" is to speak out against them.

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24-09-2012, 01:13 PM (This post was last modified: 24-09-2012 01:27 PM by Internet Mullah.)
RE: Condemning "Innocence of Muslims"
(22-09-2012 05:19 AM)FSM_scot Wrote:  I know that not all Muslims are violent. But the moderates enable the extremists by not taking a stand against them.

But, sometimes, moderates do take a stand against them. See the link below:
Libyans sorry for terrorists burning US embassy – Pics

Those are moderate Muslims demonstrating against the violent reaction caused by the (dubbed) "Muhammad" movie.

(22-09-2012 05:25 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  When has a Muslim Mullah ever issued a fatwah for violence?

Many times. You just don't hear them a lot or maybe their fatwas do not get posted on the internet as often as the actions of violent Muslims.

Two examples below:
US imam warns Muslims against violent overreaction to film
Open letter to violent Muslim protestors
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24-09-2012, 02:47 PM (This post was last modified: 24-09-2012 02:59 PM by Logica Humano.)
RE: Condemning "Innocence of Muslims"
(23-09-2012 06:18 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  I'm not excusing the rioting Muslims... they have shown themselves to be intolerant. But the makers of this film weren't exactly "minding their own business when all of a sudden..." either.

No one has said that on here. However, if anyone is in the wrong, it is the Muslims and their inability to protest passively. If you are going to be that sensitive over a goddamn Youtube video, you don't deserve to speak.

Again, no one as said that there isn't a certain niche of Muslims who aren't progressive, Internet Mullah. The problem is that the majority are uneducated, ignorant, and easy to control. This makes hatred all the easier to insight among them. If only the majority of Muslims did this, then perhaps I would actually have a small amount of respect for the religion.

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24-09-2012, 02:57 PM
RE: Condemning "Innocence of Muslims"
(24-09-2012 01:13 PM)Internet Mullah Wrote:  But, sometimes, moderates do take a stand against them. See the link below:
Libyans sorry for terrorists burning US embassy – Pics

Those are moderate Muslims demonstrating against the violent reaction caused by the (dubbed) "Muhammad" movie.

Good on them. More people like them need to take a stand and show the extremists that what they do is not on.

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24-09-2012, 03:20 PM (This post was last modified: 24-09-2012 03:34 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: Condemning "Innocence of Muslims"
(24-09-2012 10:18 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(24-09-2012 09:34 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Why should it be condemned? Consider
Because it obviously has no purpose except to be inflammatory and insulting. Instead of attempting to resolve anything it only contributes further to a problem that is badly in need of a resolution. I think being disrespectful to Islam as a whole is wrong which is different than politely expressing disagreement with the religion and backing it up with substantial arguments. Films such as this one only fan the flames of bigotry and hatred.

Shocking

I can't agree with you at all on this point.

Why is it ok to insult christianity but not islam?

After all the film link below is the most offensive thing I could find. Should we ban this?



NSFW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ncwCETyQlk

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24-09-2012, 11:16 PM
RE: Condemning "Innocence of Muslims"
(24-09-2012 03:23 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  Say it's shit all you like. Say its offensive, should be banned or shouldn't be protected speech and you're siding with the bad guys.

Move one word and I'll agree with you completely:

Say it's shit and offensive all you like. Say it should be banned or shouldn't be protected speech and you're siding with the bad guys.

It is offensive. And it shouldn't be banned.

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25-09-2012, 08:07 AM
RE: Condemning "Innocence of Muslims"
(24-09-2012 03:20 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  I can't agree with you at all on this point.

Why is it ok to insult christianity but not islam?
Neither is ok. There is a difference between constructive criticism and debate vs. destructive insults. The first is acceptable, the second is not for any side.

(24-09-2012 03:20 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  After all the film link below is the most offensive thing I could find. Should we ban this?



NSFW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ncwCETyQlk
Ban it? No. But we should condemn it.

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