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16-03-2014, 04:10 PM (This post was last modified: 16-03-2014 05:52 PM by Momsurroundedbyboys.)
RE: Conflicted
Thread split. The personal issues and support section is not a place to be provocative and elicit debate.


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16-03-2014, 05:48 PM
RE: Conflicted
I say come out, you say it doesn't affect you, but it probably does. Coming out changes you, it makes you a happier person, it's amazing how keeping one part of ourselves hidden makes us grumpy assholes.
And if some people can't live with you as you are, then fuck them, you can't put a burden in your mind just to pleace them, and not just for you, also for them, it spoils them, it prevents them to face their own hate and fight it.
And if they won't change their minds, then they already hate you, they just don't know it yet...

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16-03-2014, 07:08 PM
RE: Conflicted
You are so fucking gay.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
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Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
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16-03-2014, 09:36 PM
RE: Conflicted
Muffs, love you man (30% homo at best) but from what you have told me they know already. I would put money that the reaction to you coming out will be this.

[Image: o-FATHER-SON-NOTE-COMING-OUT-570.jpg?6]

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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17-03-2014, 02:53 AM
RE: Conflicted
(16-03-2014 07:49 AM)meremortal Wrote:  Are you in a relationship with someone right now?

No, I don't date nor have any desire to start.

Quote:However, sometimes people can surprise you - they may be indoctrinated to have issues, but when it concerns someone they love, it gives cause for thought and a lot of people change their minds based on that. That may take some time of reflection for them, but it does happen quite a lot that way.

The alternative to that happening though is that they don't.

Quote:How much do you see your openness of your sexuality as a defining aspect of your social behaviour? If keeping it quiet means you can't be yourself around certain people, to the point where it bothers you, maybe come out. If you are private about your sex life anyway and you are more inclined to think of it as not so important in terms of how you behave around people. Then it's a none issue either way.

I'm not myself around people all the time. It's not just this but just social interactions in general. I hate stupid people, I hate it when people say stupid shit, I hate being around people, I hate talking about stupid social shit like what what's her face did the other night at that party etc.. But I can't sit there and just tell people they're a fucking idiot or that there is a huge political crisis going on right now in Crimea, what what's her face did last night at that party is literally the most uninteresting/unimportant thing in the world right now. I can't tell people this because it's not socially acceptable. And so what people in RL get is filtered/shy Muffs. I also get agitated and restless in social situations so that doesn't help.

Hiding shit is a non-issue for me, I've been acting my whole life, I wont ever be able to be myself anyway whether I'm out or not so the "be yourself" argument doesn't really apply. There's still plenty I don't even tell you lot, bigger things than being gay that I'll likely never tell even tta.

Quote: My dearest and oldest friend came out to his extremely, extremely religious family and was pleasantly surprised at how much support he received. He couldn't hide the fact that he had moved in with another man, bought a home and vacationed together. He did wait until circumstances made it impossible NOT to come out to all his family. He had taken his closest sibling into his confidence years before and that provided some relief for lack of a better word.

So what I'm saying is not everyone needs to know all at one shot and not everyone needs to know immediately.

My situation is sort of like if one knows, they all know.

Quote:My answer is obvious.

People shouldn't have to hide who they are. It feels okay now maybe, living in comfort of an unsaid truth. But later you may come to hate that you never said anything "sooner" or at all.

I say be loud and proud sunshine. Smile

Children shouldn't die of preventable diseases either, yet it happens.

Quote:Yanno, Muffs, it's easy for me to sit here at my table and type "Come Out" since I strongly support gay/civil rights. But I also know that I type from my middle-income, comfy, middle-America, white, male-female marriage. I support whichever decision you feel works best for your situation. On one hand of course I say 'come out' and be simply proud of who you are. Individualism is far more supported these days than 20 yrs ago. But on the other hand I really don't know how coming out will affect you directly. Some say come out now before a sincere relationship but I've seen significant relationships help with the appreciation and understanding.....so.....
The only person who can reach this conclusion is you for no one understands better than you what it means in your life.
Again I support whichever way you want to go. I don't live in your skin so I can only be a friend understanding that you'll do what's best for you.

Yea, this is similar to advice I'd give.
I just wanted opinions to see what others thought of my situation.
I'm certainly not a person who lets others dictate how I do shit.

Quote:One thing I do feel Very strongly about = don't let anyone judge you should you decide to put off coming out. Being human is very simply organic. Things I was strong about 20 yrs ago I don't much trek these days. Some things that weren't important to me 20 yrs ago are paramount today. We are organic and individual, beautiful creatures making our way through life the best we can. And judging one another should take a backseat to helping, appreciating and accepting one another.

People can think what they want, like I said, at the end of the day I'm still gonna do what I wanna do. It is my situation, not theirs.

Quote:If not coming out holds no consequences for you, then why do you agonize about it so much?

I don't agonize over this. I think about it, contemplate it but it's not tearing me apart or anything.

Quote:I'm guessing you're talking about members of your family and their reactions.

A few years ago, my sister made a point to call each of her siblings to break the news that her 19 year old son was gay.
Our reactions were all like "yeah, so? I've known that since he was about 5."

I don't know your family, but some of them might surprise you. Coffeedrinker

It's not just their initial reaction. It's their reaction there after. I don't wanna be "that gay guy". I don't want that to be the center of every conversation I ever have from then on because I hate it, I'm over gay rights and gay issues and shit but I just know that that will be the center of every conversation.

If the only issue was their initial reaction and than life went on as normal than I would have done this years ago. But it's not, the issue is their initial reaction and their interaction with me there after.

Quote:Naw, seriously. I say come out. It's not like you have to take an ad out in the local paper, but those close to you should know. It's part of who you are.

Yabut, there's so much they don't know about me already.
Hell, they all think I actually past university.

Quote:In the end, you'll never know the outcome until you do what you're gonna do. So you may as well just get on with the doing.

That's all well and good, but I can't take it back. Once the cat is out of the bag that's it.

Quote:Theres no reason to go around anouncing that your gay,hetro, bi or whatever, if it comes up in conversation, that would be different.

Either way, keep a sense of humor about it. We had a guy in the club years ago that made way to many comments about guys, and it finally came out that he was bi (leaning towards gay), no biggie to the rest of us, but he did get some ribbing about it at times from us, and gave us some serious cuts back to the pussy sniffers as well.

Anyone else giving him shit would have eaten dirt in a heartbeat, by him and the rest of us. He was a brother and thats all that mattered.

Yeah, I'm in a different lifestyle than you may be in, but the point I'm trying to make applies all the same.
Quote:I haven't come out and told people that I am heterosexual, my sexual interests are my private business. They aren't public domain to be discussed, debated, analysed and judged. I'm sure people have worked it out because I have a wife and two kids, but hopefully it was just a passing, non important observation rather than one of relief or despair.

Why should your being gay require an announcement?

There is an ideal world and than there is the real world.
Yea, in an ideal world I wouldn't have to explain myself but we don't live in an ideal world we live in the real world.

It's a non-issue for you to be straight because that's the social norm. Everyone sees a guy and they expect him to like boobs and so when it turns out he does it's not a problem, all is normal. A lot of people have a negative opinion of gay people, noone has a negative opinion of straight people.

It's not as easy as "I'm gay" "Oh ok".
But if you don't say anything people just resort to the default setting and assume you're straight.

Quote:Muffs, love you man (30% homo at best) but from what you have told me they know already. I would put money that the reaction to you coming out will be this.

[Image: o-FATHER-SON-NOTE-COMING-OUT-570.jpg?6]

Yea but it's not that easy either.
Because when you say it, like actually say it, it crushes any hope they had that you weren't. So it's still an issue.


I think I had some other shit to say but I forgot what it was, it'll come to me later.

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17-03-2014, 03:01 AM
RE: Conflicted
(17-03-2014 02:53 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(16-03-2014 07:49 AM)meremortal Wrote:  Are you in a relationship with someone right now?

No, I don't date nor have any desire to start.

Quote:However, sometimes people can surprise you - they may be indoctrinated to have issues, but when it concerns someone they love, it gives cause for thought and a lot of people change their minds based on that. That may take some time of reflection for them, but it does happen quite a lot that way.

The alternative to that happening though is that they don't.

Quote:How much do you see your openness of your sexuality as a defining aspect of your social behaviour? If keeping it quiet means you can't be yourself around certain people, to the point where it bothers you, maybe come out. If you are private about your sex life anyway and you are more inclined to think of it as not so important in terms of how you behave around people. Then it's a none issue either way.

I'm not myself around people all the time. It's not just this but just social interactions in general. I hate stupid people, I hate it when people say stupid shit, I hate being around people, I hate talking about stupid social shit like what what's her face did the other night at that party etc.. But I can't sit there and just tell people they're a fucking idiot or that there is a huge political crisis going on right now in Crimea, what what's her face did last night at that party is literally the most uninteresting/unimportant thing in the world right now. I can't tell people this because it's not socially acceptable. And so what people in RL get is filtered/shy Muffs. I also get agitated and restless in social situations so that doesn't help.

Hiding shit is a non-issue for me, I've been acting my whole life, I wont ever be able to be myself anyway whether I'm out or not so the "be yourself" argument doesn't really apply. There's still plenty I don't even tell you lot, bigger things than being gay that I'll likely never tell even tta.

Quote: My dearest and oldest friend came out to his extremely, extremely religious family and was pleasantly surprised at how much support he received. He couldn't hide the fact that he had moved in with another man, bought a home and vacationed together. He did wait until circumstances made it impossible NOT to come out to all his family. He had taken his closest sibling into his confidence years before and that provided some relief for lack of a better word.

So what I'm saying is not everyone needs to know all at one shot and not everyone needs to know immediately.

My situation is sort of like if one knows, they all know.

Quote:My answer is obvious.

People shouldn't have to hide who they are. It feels okay now maybe, living in comfort of an unsaid truth. But later you may come to hate that you never said anything "sooner" or at all.

I say be loud and proud sunshine. Smile

Children shouldn't die of preventable diseases either, yet it happens.

Quote:Yanno, Muffs, it's easy for me to sit here at my table and type "Come Out" since I strongly support gay/civil rights. But I also know that I type from my middle-income, comfy, middle-America, white, male-female marriage. I support whichever decision you feel works best for your situation. On one hand of course I say 'come out' and be simply proud of who you are. Individualism is far more supported these days than 20 yrs ago. But on the other hand I really don't know how coming out will affect you directly. Some say come out now before a sincere relationship but I've seen significant relationships help with the appreciation and understanding.....so.....
The only person who can reach this conclusion is you for no one understands better than you what it means in your life.
Again I support whichever way you want to go. I don't live in your skin so I can only be a friend understanding that you'll do what's best for you.

Yea, this is similar to advice I'd give.
I just wanted opinions to see what others thought of my situation.
I'm certainly not a person who lets others dictate how I do shit.

Quote:One thing I do feel Very strongly about = don't let anyone judge you should you decide to put off coming out. Being human is very simply organic. Things I was strong about 20 yrs ago I don't much trek these days. Some things that weren't important to me 20 yrs ago are paramount today. We are organic and individual, beautiful creatures making our way through life the best we can. And judging one another should take a backseat to helping, appreciating and accepting one another.

People can think what they want, like I said, at the end of the day I'm still gonna do what I wanna do. It is my situation, not theirs.

Quote:If not coming out holds no consequences for you, then why do you agonize about it so much?

I don't agonize over this. I think about it, contemplate it but it's not tearing me apart or anything.

Quote:I'm guessing you're talking about members of your family and their reactions.

A few years ago, my sister made a point to call each of her siblings to break the news that her 19 year old son was gay.
Our reactions were all like "yeah, so? I've known that since he was about 5."

I don't know your family, but some of them might surprise you. Coffeedrinker

It's not just their initial reaction. It's their reaction there after. I don't wanna be "that gay guy". I don't want that to be the center of every conversation I ever have from then on because I hate it, I'm over gay rights and gay issues and shit but I just know that that will be the center of every conversation.

If the only issue was their initial reaction and than life went on as normal than I would have done this years ago. But it's not, the issue is their initial reaction and their interaction with me there after.

Quote:Naw, seriously. I say come out. It's not like you have to take an ad out in the local paper, but those close to you should know. It's part of who you are.

Yabut, there's so much they don't know about me already.
Hell, they all think I actually past university.

Quote:In the end, you'll never know the outcome until you do what you're gonna do. So you may as well just get on with the doing.

That's all well and good, but I can't take it back. Once the cat is out of the bag that's it.

Quote:Theres no reason to go around anouncing that your gay,hetro, bi or whatever, if it comes up in conversation, that would be different.

Either way, keep a sense of humor about it. We had a guy in the club years ago that made way to many comments about guys, and it finally came out that he was bi (leaning towards gay), no biggie to the rest of us, but he did get some ribbing about it at times from us, and gave us some serious cuts back to the pussy sniffers as well.

Anyone else giving him shit would have eaten dirt in a heartbeat, by him and the rest of us. He was a brother and thats all that mattered.

Yeah, I'm in a different lifestyle than you may be in, but the point I'm trying to make applies all the same.
Quote:I haven't come out and told people that I am heterosexual, my sexual interests are my private business. They aren't public domain to be discussed, debated, analysed and judged. I'm sure people have worked it out because I have a wife and two kids, but hopefully it was just a passing, non important observation rather than one of relief or despair.

Why should your being gay require an announcement?

There is an ideal world and than there is the real world.
Yea, in an ideal world I wouldn't have to explain myself but we don't live in an ideal world we live in the real world.

It's a non-issue for you to be straight because that's the social norm. Everyone sees a guy and they expect him to like boobs and so when it turns out he does it's not a problem, all is normal. A lot of people have a negative opinion of gay people, noone has a negative opinion of straight people.

It's not as easy as "I'm gay" "Oh ok".
But if you don't say anything people just resort to the default setting and assume you're straight.

Quote:Muffs, love you man (30% homo at best) but from what you have told me they know already. I would put money that the reaction to you coming out will be this.

[Image: o-FATHER-SON-NOTE-COMING-OUT-570.jpg?6]

Yea but it's not that easy either.
Because when you say it, like actually say it, it crushes any hope they had that you weren't. So it's still an issue.


I think I had some other shit to say but I forgot what it was, it'll come to me later.

My advice to you is the same as it has always been. Do what you feel is right. But I think you want to come out and just not have this to worry about anymore. You bring it up enough that I know it bothers you, at least a little. That's my 2 cents take it or leave it.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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17-03-2014, 04:56 AM
RE: Conflicted
Quote:I'm not myself around people all the time. It's not just this but just social interactions in general. I hate stupid people, I hate it when people say stupid shit, I hate being around people, I hate talking about stupid social shit like what what's her face did the other night at that party etc.. But I can't sit there and just tell people they're a fucking idiot or that there is a huge political crisis going on right now in Crimea, what what's her face did last night at that party is literally the most uninteresting/unimportant thing in the world right now. I can't tell people this because it's not socially acceptable. And so what people in RL get is filtered/shy Muffs. I also get agitated and restless in social situations so that doesn't help. Hiding shit is a non-issue for me, I've been acting my whole life, I wont ever be able to be myself anyway whether I'm out or not so the "be yourself" argument doesn't really apply. There's still plenty I don't even tell you lot, bigger things than being gay that I'll likely never tell even tta.

I hear you. I'm 37 and was trapped in the pitfalls of vapid social interactions up to my mid 20s. ... I don't have that problem now because, like you, I can be surly, cutting and deliver high quality insults as required. ... I just stopped keeping my mouth shut when people pissed me off. I learnt over the years to deliver my criticism with good humour instead of plain abuse and more importantly, I learnt how to take it.

I say all of this Muffs because, the impression I get from you on the forum is, that you're a willful person with strong character who has no problem keeping your self to your self, or speaking up when you see fit. ... I draw the analogy of suffering fools in silence because I can relate to it. ... I come back in my own head to this sort of thing all the time 'just because I can, doesn't mean I should'.

So you're a clever guy with self control, who 'can' let people confuse your silence with shyness. Does it mean you should?

So you're a gay guy with character enough to not be bothered by people enough to have it be the primary motivator on whether or not you come out? Just because you 'can' keep it to yourself ...

Seriously mate, I have no idea what you should do, I am playing Devils advocate based on what you said to me. I'm trying to drive at the point that your strength of character and lack of neediness with people may in fact cloud your decision. ... I suppose from a point of view based in what little wisdom life has taught me, I'm saying this.

To separate the wheat from the chaff and find people in your life, be they friends or lovers, who are like minded and will understand you, you have to be open and understandable, or you'll get fucking stuck! In groundhog day! And will be destined to listen to Sally and Sues gossip ... FOREVER! BWAHAHAH.... (sorry, dunno what came over me there) ... Smile

Either way bro, good luck with whatever you decide to do!

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17-03-2014, 05:04 AM
RE: Conflicted
I can the same advice as mostly everyone else. Just do whatever you feel like you should do.
Hug

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17-03-2014, 06:26 AM
RE: Conflicted
http://www.wikihow.com/Come-Out-As-Gay-or-Lesbian

I know this won't mean much but I hope it helps.

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17-03-2014, 06:54 AM
RE: Conflicted
(16-03-2014 02:26 PM)Stevil Wrote:  It's not just their initial reaction. It's their reaction there after. I don't wanna be "that gay guy". I don't want that to be the center of every conversation I ever have from then on because I hate it, I'm over gay rights and gay issues and shit but I just know that that will be the center of every conversation.


Not for nothing but I feel THIS ^ is key in your thinking. Perhaps address the 'later' part for more in depth look at what worries you? (just a suggestion)

meanwhile.....might I suggest the ol Ben Franklin close?
take a piece of paper, draw a line down the middle, on one side you write PROS and on the other side of the line you write CONS. Now list all you can think of.
Follow the math.

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