Confused Atheist & Theological Noncognitivism
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06-05-2017, 06:58 PM
RE: Confused Atheist & Theological Noncognitivism
(06-05-2017 06:29 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  Welcome Witty.

I'm a former Catholic as well. Your only a year in to the land of reason so there are always rements of the Catholic guilt that stills lingers. But given time and more comfort with the subject matter and heared rebuttals for the arguments, it will eventually fade.

When ever you get something that bothers you or feel that Theologian has a "sound point" post it. People have been at longer and most likely have a different point of view.

Duns Scotus will be the first one on the chopping block when I can talk about it. I have been too afraid to read his work myself as I think if I did without help, I would take it hook-line-and-sinker. Thanks.
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06-05-2017, 07:00 PM (This post was last modified: 06-05-2017 07:07 PM by DLJ.)
RE: Confused Atheist & Theological Noncognitivism
(06-05-2017 06:13 PM)SomethingWitty2 Wrote:  ...
They all look like delusions atm. All our attempts to find "identity" and "meaning" are worthless and only make us want more stimulant for a brief fix.
...

Welcome.

Yup, nihilism sucks, doesn't it?

But let's not confuse 'truth' with 'wisdom'.

It may be socially/politically wise to go back to the safety of the flock but that does not make any of the bleating true.

I'm looking forward to reading the debate. Please post the salient points in this section.

Just a thought... our stimulants (pleasure and pain; ritual; bonding etc.) have been naturally selected for... including that desire not to feel worthless and to find a god from which not to be different.

Perhaps it's the necessary hardships that give us our worth?

Consider

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06-05-2017, 07:06 PM
RE: Confused Atheist & Theological Noncognitivism
(06-05-2017 07:00 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 06:13 PM)SomethingWitty2 Wrote:  ...
They all look like delusions atm. All our attempts to find "identity" and "meaning" are worthless and only make us want more stimulant for a brief fix.
...

Welcome.

Yup, nihilism sucks, doesn't it?

But let's not confuse 'truth' with 'wisdom'.

It may be socially/politically wise to go back to the safety of the flock but that does not make any of the bleating true.

I'm looking forward to reading the debate. Please post the salient points in this section.

Just a thought... our stimulants (pleasure and pain; ritual; bonding etc.) have been naturally selected for... including that desire not to feel worthless and to find a god from which not to be different.

Perhaps it's the necessary hardship that gives us our worth?

Consider


Thanks for the reply. No, it isn't nihilism that I am feeling. It is more a disgust for things that are pleasurable outside of the quiet contemplation Plato talked about in the Republic. The image of someone wearing a smoke jacket sitting in a deep chair and guffawing while reading a book comes to mind as the ideal man, rather than all this "lascivious behavior" that we find in 2017 - this music video describes perfectly what my mind thinks humanity will go towards being "godless". https://youtu.be/xvZqHgFz51I

I would say they don't have any meaning. Instead, that those pursuits are inherently harmful, and distract one from living a "Moral Life". Whatever that is....probably what the priest told me, and I chalk to be inherent. AmIright? Indoctrination feelsbadman.
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06-05-2017, 07:07 PM
RE: Confused Atheist & Theological Noncognitivism
(06-05-2017 06:55 PM)SomethingWitty2 Wrote:  Thanks for the advice. No, I did not mean to be dishonest, or passive aggressive. Did I think I was superior in some ways, yes. Having thought I learned a "Hidden Truth" of the universe did make me feel giddy...only after I had locked myself in my bedroom resisted the extreme urge to call a priest for an exorcism. Yes, as I was having doubts on faith and while I was initially questioning I did think too I was possessed by a daemon.

Hidden truth? I thought atheism was just the opposite - there is no hidden anything. The universe just is and we are gradually learning how it works. That's basically it.

Quote:An unwritten code of conduct seemed to be of a "New Atheist" was to act like a jerk. I believe I did fit the caricature of a stereotypical internet atheist just perfectly, the one you see as a meme and all. Now I am looking into research more,philosophy, and thinking rationally for the first time in my life.

In all my time on atheist sites I have never ever come across someone acting like a jerk because they are an atheist. Yes, there are atheists who are jerks, like there are jerks everywhere. That new atheist meme is a pile of rubbish, really.

(And I dislike Dawkins, for the record)

[Image: old-atheists-vs-new-atheists-600x334.jpeg]


I come from an Eastern Orthodox background, too (but I was a self-taught religionist, so my experience is different). But that thinking you were possessed is... scary. You should maybe seek professional help about that (I mean this seriously, not as an offence)

Also,when deconverting, I, too, suffered from a perceived lack of meaning to anything sans god. Once I threw the shackles off, the world became a thousandfold richer and more wondrous than it ever was when I thought I was put on this earth to serve and please a creator, whom I never asked to create or put me on this earth anyway.

As for not going back to you faith, can you identify the weak points in your religious beliefs (such as they are) and try to focus on that, read more about it? Or, conversely, if there are certain things in religion that seem to make sense to you, why not discuss them here? There are people here who know a whole lot about religion and if you really want to get rid of it, I'm sure they will be able to lend a hand.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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06-05-2017, 07:17 PM
RE: Confused Atheist & Theological Noncognitivism
(06-05-2017 07:06 PM)SomethingWitty2 Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 07:00 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Welcome.

Yup, nihilism sucks, doesn't it?

But let's not confuse 'truth' with 'wisdom'.

It may be socially/politically wise to go back to the safety of the flock but that does not make any of the bleating true.

I'm looking forward to reading the debate. Please post the salient points in this section.

Just a thought... our stimulants (pleasure and pain; ritual; bonding etc.) have been naturally selected for... including that desire not to feel worthless and to find a god from which not to be different.

Perhaps it's the necessary hardship that gives us our worth?

Consider


Thanks for the reply. No, it isn't nihilism that I am feeling. It is more a disgust for things that are pleasurable outside of the quiet contemplation Plato talked about in the Republic. The image of someone wearing a smoke jacket sitting in a deep chair and guffawing while reading a book comes to mind as the ideal man, rather than all this "lascivious behavior" that we find in 2017 - this music video describes perfectly what my mind thinks humanity will go towards being "godless". https://youtu.be/xvZqHgFz51I

I would say they don't have any meaning. Instead, that those pursuits are inherently harmful, and distract one from living a "Moral Life". Whatever that is....probably what the priest told me, and I chalk to be inherent. AmIright? Indoctrination feelsbadman.

We have a policy for this intro section where it's about "getting to know you" so I'm not going to challenge that here... as much as I'm tempted to.

In another section we can discuss periods of history where "godfullness" and lascivious hedonism have gone hand in hand.

Thumbsup

ps I read the lyrics of the linked song and I'm assuming it's about "lascivious hedonism" from your description but I confess that I need a translation from Vera.

Huh

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06-05-2017, 07:20 PM
RE: Confused Atheist & Theological Noncognitivism
Swag. I think this just about sums me off. Personality wise, I am just a broken experience to the next. Really just an illusive and undefined blob of worry. I will see everyone else on the other forums.
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06-05-2017, 07:24 PM (This post was last modified: 06-05-2017 07:36 PM by Vera.)
RE: Confused Atheist & Theological Noncognitivism
(06-05-2017 07:20 PM)SomethingWitty2 Wrote:  Swag. I think this just about sums me off. Personality wise, I am just a broken experience to the next. Really just an illusive and undefined blob of worry. I will see everyone else on the other forums.

Welcome to the club, my friend.

Now go and mingle, and have some fun Wink

DelJoy, rap is one of the few languages I don't speak or have *any* interest in speaking or understanding, thank you very muchly. Dodgy And it has nothing to do with godlessness and a lot to do with... oh well, this is the introduction thread, never mind.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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06-05-2017, 09:05 PM
RE: Confused Atheist & Theological Noncognitivism
Welcome to the forum Smile

I'm sorry to hear about your struggles, and I hope that discussion with the fine folks here can help you work through it.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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06-05-2017, 09:28 PM
RE: Confused Atheist & Theological Noncognitivism
Welcome!

(06-05-2017 06:13 PM)SomethingWitty2 Wrote:  I do believe I am suffering from scrupulosity.
Sorry to hear that, but can definitely relate at times. Sad

Need to think of a witty signature.
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07-05-2017, 05:24 AM
RE: Confused Atheist & Theological Noncognitivism
Hi and welcome.

As this is the introduction thread, I'm not going to go very deep, but you'll get lots of leads here to resources that can help you think your way through the conundrums you describe.

Also, I'm just throwing out the idea that it might be an idea for you to look for some real-life counseling. For many, moving away from religion is a big emotional step, and it can be helpful to get some help processing things.

Lastly: C.S. Lewis: the sooner you get clear of his brand of condescending, badly argued Christianity the better. Take a break of a few years from reading him, come back to him, and he'll turn your stomach. (Saying this as someone who read and reread and reread the Narnia books as a kid, then the "science fiction" novels and all the apologetics, then took a break from Lewis for years. Then I had a kid and tried to read that kid Narnia for the story and not the allegory and had to give up halfway through book one. Writing not very good, allegory and bigotry whapping you in every other paragraph, blech)
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