Confused Christian
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15-09-2014, 06:42 PM
Confused Christian
Right around the 29 minute mark, a young man named Daniel calls in to talk about how matter & energy cannot be created nor destroyed and then goes on to say that god cannot be created or destroyed. Matt replies "So you're saying that god is matter & energy ?" He replies "Yes" Matt asks him "Do you accept that matter & energy cannot be created or destroyed ?" He replies "Yes"

Matt again asks "Do you think god created reality ?" He replies "Yes"
Matt says "And he created matter & energy ?" He replies "Yes"
Matt "Well, how can that be if matter & energy can never be created or destroyed ?"

Matt "You believe that something cannot be created and you believe it was created. How do you reconcile that ?"

The kid eventually says "Since matter & energy cannot be created or destroyed then it was always there."
Matt replies "If it was always there, what do you need a god for ?"

The kid rambles a bit and then it just goes on from there.

He couldn't make the connection between accepting both as true when they both can't be true.




Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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15-09-2014, 07:53 PM
RE: Confused Christian
(15-09-2014 06:42 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Right around the 29 minute mark, a young man named Daniel calls in to talk about how matter & energy cannot be created nor destroyed and then goes on to say that god cannot be created or destroyed. Matt replies "So you're saying that god is matter & energy ?" He replies "Yes" Matt asks him "Do you accept that matter & energy cannot be created or destroyed ?" He replies "Yes"

Matt again asks "Do you think god created reality ?" He replies "Yes"
Matt says "And he created matter & energy ?" He replies "Yes"
Matt "Well, how can that be if matter & energy can never be created or destroyed ?"

Matt "You believe that something cannot be created and you believe it was created. How do you reconcile that ?"

The kid eventually says "Since matter & energy cannot be created or destroyed then it was always there."
Matt replies "If it was always there, what do you need a god for ?"

The kid rambles a bit and then it just goes on from there.

He couldn't make the connection between accepting both as true when they both can't be true.




Matter can be created. It cannot be destroyed. If matter cannot be created, and I use the word created in a loose sense as in that matter cannot become real from nothing which we know it has done before. Then nothing would exist period.


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15-09-2014, 11:02 PM
RE: Confused Christian
The energy of the universe is conserved.
A poor analogy is that you can turn steam to ice. That doesn't mean the ice was created.

Matter comes from energy. A real famous equation shows that relationship. And alternatively you can get a large amount of energy from matter.

So saying that matter was created is not accurate.
It's just a change from energy that already existed into the matter we have around us today.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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15-09-2014, 11:33 PM
RE: Confused Christian
Today, I have no energy. But it doesn't matter.

Methinks the confusion arises from ex nihilo vs. ex materia.

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16-09-2014, 01:03 PM
RE: Confused Christian
(15-09-2014 06:42 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Right around the 29 minute mark, a young man named Daniel calls in to talk about how matter & energy cannot be created nor destroyed and then goes on to say that god cannot be created or destroyed. Matt replies "So you're saying that god is matter & energy ?" He replies "Yes" Matt asks him "Do you accept that matter & energy cannot be created or destroyed ?" He replies "Yes"

Matt again asks "Do you think god created reality ?" He replies "Yes"
Matt says "And he created matter & energy ?" He replies "Yes"
Matt "Well, how can that be if matter & energy can never be created or destroyed ?"

Matt "You believe that something cannot be created and you believe it was created. How do you reconcile that ?"

The kid eventually says "Since matter & energy cannot be created or destroyed then it was always there."
Matt replies "If it was always there, what do you need a god for ?"

The kid rambles a bit and then it just goes on from there.

He couldn't make the connection between accepting both as true when they both can't be true.



What we have heeerrrreee is a failure to integrate. (say it in your best southern accent)

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

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The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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16-09-2014, 01:05 PM
RE: Confused Christian
(15-09-2014 11:33 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Today, I have no energy.

On the contrary; burning your body in a furnace would liberate a great deal of energy.

... this is my signature!
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16-09-2014, 09:03 PM
RE: Confused Christian
(15-09-2014 11:02 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  The energy of the universe is conserved.
A poor analogy is that you can turn steam to ice. That doesn't mean the ice was created.

Matter comes from energy. A real famous equation shows that relationship. And alternatively you can get a large amount of energy from matter.

So saying that matter was created is not accurate.
It's just a change from energy that already existed into the matter we have around us today.

I agree, like how you explained this.

Religious people could still argue of course, that if matter was always there, that an almighty all powerful Creator, could manage to do that, as well.

'Tis a mystery of faith. Drinking Beverage

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