Congress overrides Obama's veto
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29-09-2016, 02:50 AM
Congress overrides Obama's veto
Once again, a basically American issue has international implications.

Congress has overidden Obama's veto on individuals suing Saudi Arabia over 9/11.

Will this leave America open to charges over "collateral" civilian deaths in Iraq, Afghanistan, even Vietnam?

If the international courts uphold any of these claims, will every country that has caused civilian deaths be liable?

The claim is that the Saudis at least covertly condoned the 9/11 attacks forgetting, IIRC, that Al Queda was anti the Saudi royal family and that family had no gains from alienating America.

But, once politics and the economics of energy get their hands on things rationality and common sense take a dive.

Since America is choosy about which international laws it obeys will they allow the Saudis the same behaviour?

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29-09-2016, 03:22 AM
RE: Congress overrides Obama's veto
(29-09-2016 02:50 AM)Gloucester Wrote:  Once again, a basically American issue has international implications.

Congress has overidden Obama's veto on individuals suing Saudi Arabia over 9/11.

Will this leave America open to charges over "collateral" civilian deaths in Iraq, Afghanistan, even Vietnam?

If the international courts uphold any of these claims, will every country that has caused civilian deaths be liable?

The claim is that the Saudis at least covertly condoned the 9/11 attacks forgetting, IIRC, that Al Queda was anti the Saudi royal family and that family had no gains from alienating America.

But, once politics and the economics of energy get their hands on things rationality and common sense take a dive.

Since America is choosy about which international laws it obeys will they allow the Saudis the same behaviour?

Where will they be suing Saudi Arabia? Can you even take a country to court?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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29-09-2016, 04:00 AM
RE: Congress overrides Obama's veto
(29-09-2016 03:22 AM)morondog Wrote:  Where will they be suing Saudi Arabia? Can you even take a country to court?

Sure. But can an individual take one to court? Can a class action suite be filed? Hell if I know. But I wouldn't be surprised if this is the end of things. Even assuming one does go through, and some international court with jurisdiction actually agrees to hear the case? I'd assume the US Justice Department (under Obama or Clinton) would be filing an amicus brief in favor of dismissal.

If they allow for such a precedent, the US would be at the receiving end of a maelstrom of lawsuits.

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29-09-2016, 04:11 AM
RE: Congress overrides Obama's veto
(29-09-2016 03:22 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(29-09-2016 02:50 AM)Gloucester Wrote:  Once again, a basically American issue has international implications.

Congress has overidden Obama's veto on individuals suing Saudi Arabia over 9/11.

Will this leave America open to charges over "collateral" civilian deaths in Iraq, Afghanistan, even Vietnam?

If the international courts uphold any of these claims, will every country that has caused civilian deaths be liable?

The claim is that the Saudis at least covertly condoned the 9/11 attacks forgetting, IIRC, that Al Queda was anti the Saudi royal family and that family had no gains from alienating America.

But, once politics and the economics of energy get their hands on things rationality and common sense take a dive.

Since America is choosy about which international laws it obeys will they allow the Saudis the same behaviour?

Where will they be suing Saudi Arabia? Can you even take a country to court?
Not actually sure whether they intend to sue the country or the family! That is the trouble of saying, "the Saudis" it can refer to either.

Here's one account:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016...udi-arabia

I think whole countries can be found guilty of international crimes, terrorism, human rights violations, etc., in the international courts, but actually enforcing any decision is hard and there can be backlash.

I believe America refuses to accept the ruling that individual soldiers can be tried for "casual" war crimes. This, of course, means they should have no rights in law over the individual soldiers of an bother country who may commit such crimes against them.

Carefully kept that to soldiers, employed by recognised governments and not terrorists. The latter should have no legal protections at all. That is if you can tell between their terrorists and your freedom fighters of course.

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29-09-2016, 04:16 AM
RE: Congress overrides Obama's veto
In the US you can sue the United States. Happens all the time. Success rates vary wildly.
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29-09-2016, 04:26 AM
RE: Congress overrides Obama's veto
(29-09-2016 04:11 AM)Gloucester Wrote:  Carefully kept that to soldiers, employed by recognised governments and not terrorists. The latter should have no legal protections at all. That is if you can tell between their terrorists and your freedom fighters of course.

Why else is 'terrorist' such a go to word? It's not just dehumanizing, it's also attempting to set them apart as being illegitimate. So if you commit war-crimes against soldiers of another nation, you're in hot shit; but terrorists have no sovereign nation. Unilaterally attack foreign soldiers on foreign territory without a deceleration of war? Well, it's no problem if they're just terrorist, with no country to declare war upon in the first place. Stripping them of country strips them of legitimacy and the protections that come with it.

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29-09-2016, 12:24 PM
RE: Congress overrides Obama's veto
Perhaps if we stopped bombing people via video game like drones and supplying arms to people who shouldn't have them, Obama wouldn't be so worried about retribution.

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29-09-2016, 02:41 PM
RE: Congress overrides Obama's veto
(29-09-2016 03:22 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(29-09-2016 02:50 AM)Gloucester Wrote:  Once again, a basically American issue has international implications.

Congress has overidden Obama's veto on individuals suing Saudi Arabia over 9/11.

Will this leave America open to charges over "collateral" civilian deaths in Iraq, Afghanistan, even Vietnam?

If the international courts uphold any of these claims, will every country that has caused civilian deaths be liable?

The claim is that the Saudis at least covertly condoned the 9/11 attacks forgetting, IIRC, that Al Queda was anti the Saudi royal family and that family had no gains from alienating America.

But, once politics and the economics of energy get their hands on things rationality and common sense take a dive.

Since America is choosy about which international laws it obeys will they allow the Saudis the same behaviour?

Where will they be suing Saudi Arabia? Can you even take a country to court?

They can sue for civil damages, and Saudi Arabia has a ton of assets in US banks ... which could be "attached" if they were to lose a court judgment ... BUT, (not to be nasty) the 9/11 families already received an average of 2 million dollars from the 9/11 fund, each, (funded by the taxpayers). What do they want ? So yeah, they've already been paid a LOT, and the precedent is terrible. The US government is also liable as far as I'm concerned. They were warned at least 3 times, something was about to happen. Bush did nothing. Security at US airports was abysmal, and all that summer, (I've read), even on the evening news, there were reports about how poor security was at Logan, and a few other terminals. It's no accident they picked Logan to use as the origination field. They should be suing the Bush administration. Dodgy

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29-09-2016, 02:57 PM
Congress overrides Obama's veto
(29-09-2016 02:41 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  They should be suing the Bush administration. Dodgy

Bush did it.
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30-09-2016, 01:46 PM
RE: Congress overrides Obama's veto
Relevant political cartoon:

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