Consciousness
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
13-11-2012, 08:48 AM
Consciousness
WTF is that? Consider

OK, let s start slowly. People like thinking they re something special. Therefore they invented souls, free will etc. All these things fall in the same category as god. You cant prove it, you cant 100% disprove it, but there is no reason to suppose something like that would exist.

There are also some differences between humans and animals/dead nature which actually exist. For example: more developed culture, morality, bigger brains,... These things can be tested and proved which is nice. And we like thinking they re very important.

Consciousness(defined as the state when you re aware of yourself or objects around you) fall somewhere in the middle of these categories. You can tell that you re conscious for yourself, but you cant prove that for anyone else, because it s possible for others to behave exactly as if they were conscious while being zombies.
There were some experiments which supposedly test consciousness: psychologists were showing mirror to different kinds of terrifying creatures (gorillas, chimpanzees, little kids Hobo ...) and checked if creatures recognise themselves. Some of them did some of them didnt, but i have no idea why that would have any connection with consciousness as they said. There are also other quasi-methods to try to understand this phenomena-like cutting someone head on halves and examining what is inside Drinking Beverage .
Anyway what do you think about this topic? Are animals conscious? Are people conscious? Can you make a conscious robot? Can you test consciousness and how?

Trolls are holy race. Eduard Khil is our god.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1PBptSDIh8
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-11-2012, 09:05 AM
RE: Consciousness
DMT Thumbsup

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes bemore's post
13-11-2012, 09:09 AM
RE: Consciousness
(13-11-2012 08:48 AM)Troll Wrote:  ...
Are animals conscious? Are people conscious? Can you make a conscious robot? Can you test consciousness and how?

And more importantly...

How does ddrew manage to post anything here when he is semi-conscious?

Consider

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-11-2012, 09:21 AM
RE: Consciousness
(13-11-2012 09:09 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(13-11-2012 08:48 AM)Troll Wrote:  ...
Are animals conscious? Are people conscious? Can you make a conscious robot? Can you test consciousness and how?

And more importantly...

How does ddrew manage to post anything here when he is semi-conscious?

Consider


Well, they are sort of semi-posts, then, aren't they? Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Chas's post
13-11-2012, 09:34 AM
RE: Consciousness
(13-11-2012 09:09 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(13-11-2012 08:48 AM)Troll Wrote:  ...
Are animals conscious? Are people conscious? Can you make a conscious robot? Can you test consciousness and how?

And more importantly...

How does ddrew manage to post anything here when he is semi-conscious?

Consider
I guess bots can post on forums too. Are they conscious?

Trolls are holy race. Eduard Khil is our god.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1PBptSDIh8
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-11-2012, 09:45 AM
RE: Consciousness
Are you talking about " "self" conscious ? Animals are conscious. Some animals are "self" conscious.
IMHO "consciousness" is an illusion.
The illusion arises from :
a. constant, rapid sensory input, from many sources and modalities
b. "referenced to" or "checked against" memory (which constantly happens in a time frame so fast that "bits" or
"chunks" of information data are experienced as "continuous").
No Neuro-biologist here, so this may be all wet. I could explain some things, such as IQ, levels of "consciousness", (could be dependant on genetic capability of memory formation), 100 % molecular/atomic model.

Ask Girly. He's thought about this more I think.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist and Levitating yogi, CAAT-LY.
Yeah, for verily I say unto thee, and this we know : Jebus no likey that which doth tickle thee unto thy nether regions.

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-11-2012, 10:16 AM
RE: Consciousness
(13-11-2012 09:45 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Are you talking about " "self" conscious ? Animals are conscious. Some animals are "self" conscious.
IMHO "consciousness" is an illusion.
The illusion arises from :
a. constant, rapid sensory input, from many sources and modalities
b. "referenced to" or "checked against" memory (which constantly happens in a time frame so fast that "bits" or
"chunks" of information data are experienced as "continuous").
No Neuro-biologist here, so this may be all wet. I could explain some things, such as IQ, levels of "consciousness", (could be dependant on genetic capability of memory formation), 100 % molecular/atomic model.

Ask Girly. He's thought about this more I think.
I m trying to use as common definition as possible. I consider either self-consciousness or other-consciousness as consciousness. And i dont think it s an illusion, i think it s just slightly strangely defined so that it s hard to test. It s like "being happy". You can prove to yourself you re happy, but it s impossible to prove that others are happy(perhaps they re lying). You can examine their brains and check if they have the same chemicals inside as yours when you re happy which kind of work when you re examining a human or monkey. But when you want to decide if frog or computer is happy this methods will fail because frogs and computers have totally different kind of "brains".

I think it s reasonable to assume that simple one cell animals arent conscious because they dont have complex thinking organs which could produce consciousness. And some monkeys probably are conscious, because their brains are similar to human brains. But it s hard to draw the line and actually prove that.

Trolls are holy race. Eduard Khil is our god.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1PBptSDIh8
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
13-11-2012, 10:17 AM
RE: Consciousness
The mirror test is about putting stickers on the body. One needs to have a body image in order to process the fact that the image has been altered - i.e. stickers.

And all it is is emergent signal derived from an evolved ability to simulate future. If it was that important it would not be so easily altered or shut off in times of trauma. People that triumph consciousness are hippy-assed motherfucking dreamers who need a new navel to stare into.

[Image: klingon_zps7e68578a.jpg]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-11-2012, 05:22 AM
RE: Consciousness
Flowers arent conscious http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcurARM01mI

Trolls are holy race. Eduard Khil is our god.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1PBptSDIh8
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-11-2012, 06:14 AM
RE: Consciousness
I think all livng things are what I would label as "conscious". (I see this thread more as an attempt to define the word.)

To me, consciousness is the part of the brain that makes decisions that are referred to the final instance - I call that "consciousness" because these are the decisions we are conscious of. These decisions are also what some people call "free will" (not me).

The brain makes countless decisions you are not aware of at all, you are not conscious of them. Like let's say urine production. While your brain is in charge of the urine arriving properly in your bladder, you know nothing of it. You pour the liquid in your mouth and then you are done. Until a sufficient amount has arrived in the bladder. Then your brain refers the matter to your conscious mind which then make a "free will" decision. You look around and decide where and when you are going to pee. If you decide to hold it in until the movie is over (or whatever) your brain keeps penetrating your "consciousness" with demands that you empty the bladder. At first just thoughts, then an urgency, eventually pain if you take too long to act. Finally your consciousness gives in and you go and pee. Next your brain tells you to add more fluid. It bugs you until you drink something. And the process starts all over again.

So, to me, consciousness is that part of the brain which executes conscious decisions. Free will comes into play when you decide of you are going to hide behind a tree and pee or walk to the next restroom. Free will is the decision that is based on present circumstance plus past experience plus genetic programming. The choices are limited. Some people are better at correlating all this and make better decisions - we call them more intelligent.

Animals and plants are also conscious if you look at it this way. It's easier to see in animals than plants, but I have for instance seen a shrub literally move from one side of the fence to the other. The side it was on had animals that kept chewing on it. So it started new shoots on the other side of the fence. Since none of them got chewed, all new shoots came up on the new side after a bit. 4 years later, the shrub was entirely on the other side of the fence, safe from the nibblers. I see that as a conscious process having taken place. Plants just do not have the capability to react by movement like we do. In this case, the shrub did react with movement, although you could not see it day to day.

Animals and people are the same, we are animals. We just evolved differently. I think (and I don't really know, I just think) that animals have a much more limited concept of future - their future appears to be limited to the immediate future. Like the dog will want the food you are eating. Now it makes the decision to beg or not to beg - based on the situation, previous experiences and genetic programming. But I do not think animals are aware of their own mortality - although I do think they are aware of the mortality of others given they have witnessed it. Their thoughts are not abstract. They deal with problem solving on an immediate, present time based level.

So, that's how I define "consciousness".

[Image: dobie.png]

Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Dom's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: