Consciousness and QP
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
14-01-2015, 10:40 PM (This post was last modified: 14-01-2015 11:02 PM by mmhm1234.)
Consciousness and QP
Ok friends, I am back and attempt to clear up any misconceptions that may have been presented in the last thread, and give you a more thorough explanation of what I am saying. I also hope this time I don't stir up another angry mob like I did in my last post.

So what exactly is quantum physics?
There a four primary quantities in QP
1) Planck's constant 'h'
h=6.26x10^-34 joule seconds or watt seconds

2) energy
Energy= h X frequency

3)Planck length, the smallest divisible slice of space allowable in our universe-space is not infinitely divisible
P=1.6X10^-35 meters

4)Planck time-the smallest divisible slice of time allowable in our universe

These four values are the key way to QP. Space, time, and energy are not infinitely divisible, not 'smooth'. Time does not run smooth like it seems to on our macroscopic scale, but occurs in tiny 'ticks' of 10^-44 seconds, like a movie projector, and it is impossible to view any transition from one tick to the next.

Another interesting feature of QP is that each quantum scale event does not share a common present with any other quantum scale event; they are isolated from one another in space and time.

A neutron is 10^-15 meters in diameter. A Planck unit of length is 10^-35 meters. That means a neutron contains something on the order of 10^60 Planck volumes. 10^60 would be written out as
1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00​0

Therefore if you could imagine a tiny sphere of 10^-35 meters, you could fit that many of them inside a single neutron, and no two of these tiny regions share the same 'now' the same 'present', the same instant in time. Each one of them is either or both, in the past or the future with respect to every other, and at is true all the way out to a scale of infinite distance. That's just one neutron. In addition, the neutron contains something on the order of 10^60 isolated regions of space-time no two of which share the same instantaneous present, the neutron itself is smeared out over space-time.

However, a wave-function has no actual substance. In my opinion, the definition of a wave function being pure absolute nothingness with infinite potential throughout space is the best definition I've heard. Otherwise, we regard the wave function as being some 'thing' with substance, which can be segmented in such a way hat it can be wave function COLLAPSE. First, we have to define what a wave is. A wave is not a thing. In fact, a wave function is more accurately described as pure absolute nothingness with infinite potential to be something, anything and everything throughout the Universe, from its creation 14 billion years ago to its endpoint thousands of trillions of years from now, simultaneously. A wave is a probability that something might exist and/or a probability of what that state might be.

The common misconception is to think of a wave like a water wave, which is a thing, it is tangible. But there's not actually anything to a quantum wave, by definition, a quantum wave is pure nothingness with infinite potential, which means there is nothing to matter. In fact, any type of quantum wave can appear out of total nothingness--the probability of a wave, which is a probability in itself, increases as you look at smaller and smaller slices of time. This wave function, which evolves out of absolute pure nothingness, is an infinite set of potentials spread out over all of space and time simultaneously. In one sense you can see that a thing spread out throughout all of space-time from 'The Beginning' to some indefinite end can gather, like the perfect storm, a huge amount of energy and thus manifest in an unthinkable variation of outcomes.

Wave function collapse simply means that this infinite possibilities spread out over space and time 'collapse' into one reality. Before the wave function collapses, regardless of descriptions referring to or negating the role of consciousness, the thing is in a state referred to as 'superpositioned'. Because of a quality or process of 'non-locality'. This is the relationship between those three words. We say the process or quality of non-locality leaves a wave function 'superpositioned' throughout space time until it collapses into one tangible thing.

What happens depends on who is looking at it, and what you expect to happen. Some argue that the conditions of the environment, regardless of the observer, must come into play at least to some degree. However, that assumption omits the fact that the conscious observer is also subject to the same environment, even if separated by great time and distance.

But this argument omits the dust between stars which presumably have no one watching over them to 'paint them into being.' This is the argument. If no one is there to count the dust particles between the stars, are they there when no one is watching?

You cannot possibly eliminate the conscious observer from the system and by any means know that it is there, or it has happened, and so on. There is no way around this. The CONSCIOUS OBSERVER IS THE SINGLE UNDENIABLE REPEATABLE THING, WHICH IS PRESENT IN EACH EXPERIMENT, each piece of data, everything that you are aware. The conscious observer is always the single common element to each thing known.

If you try to eliminate consciousness from the system, even a hypothetical one, nothing happens; you don't even know that nothing happens. (Vulcan Metaphysics: Nothing unreal exists...)
This seems like a childishly simple argument. It is. That is the point. Anything else requires processes and math so bizarre and complex that it appears a desperate set of infinite bandages to latch together, and still does not work, leaves huge gaps, paradoxes, and impossibilities. That is why there has been 50 years of theory with nothing to show in hand, using budgets and machinery unprecedented in human history.

Wave Function a Collapse and it's tributary concepts, although debated what it means, is not a philosophical issue. It is a phenomenon measured so many times under so many circumstances and using he most sophisticated technologies ever conceived by the greatest minds over the past century...Originally, physicists, particularly Einstein, rebuked the idea and all that it implied. However, Einstein died, knowing that he had been proven wrong, and he liked it. He had spent the entire second half of his celebrated life chasing a mechanistic universe that had been proven to 'not exist'.

The freezing of time by constant observation is the Quantum Zeno Effect. Wave Function collapse is the moment you take your eyes off it--it changes to another, possibly final state. Eyes on--Quantum Zeno Effect; frozen, blink our eyes--wave function collapse, changes to another state.

It is proven mathematically and by experimentation that true and actual progression of time as we know It is governed by the observer and his eyes on it, eyes of it concept of the Quantum Zeno Effect and Wave Function Collapse. On a macroscopic scale, this application of Consciousness to Wave function Collapse, call it what you will, if you like, doesn't seem apparent. You can't roll a lucky 7 every time or win the lottery by sheer will. Why? There is sill debate 'why' because the founders of QP died before they could reach the answer. We know it has something to do with scale, but that definition is mechanistic and ultimately vague, since the only definition for 'scale' in QP is infinity.

I think if we look at the term 'scale' and combine it with what Amit Goswami (physicist) once said something to the effect of: "on a larger scale there is not just myself, there is everybody else, too. If we all willed the lights to be green at the same time because we are all in a hurry the result would be all the cars crashing into each other, chaos, not order."

Consciousness brings order out of chaos

The word order explicitly requires populations of things and/or events. So does chaos. The definition for chaos is when those things and/or events have no relationship with one another.

Some researchers might argue that the 'forces' that cause wave function collapse come somehow out of the physical tissue of the brain. Probabilities that are composed of absolute pure nothingness (matter) don't yield possibilities that occur with certainty, it's mathematically the other way around, and irreversible. In simpler terms, a trillion, trillion, trillion Wave Functions superpositioned throughout space-time do not mechanistically deconstruct all on their own a trillion trillion trillion trillion times per second all on their own to 'paint you into existence'. This becomes even more far fetched if the suggestion is that this occurs because of probability.

In perspective, as previously stated, our single neutron consists of 10^60 isolated regions of space time. A single flower would increase that by at least 20 orders of magnitude. This means in order to 'paint a single flower into being' just once would require 10^80 organized events occurring from absolute pure nothingness superpositioned throughout space time, chaos, 10^40 times, meaning 10^120; one hundred million trillion googol organized events occurring out of pure chaos to 'paint' the dynamic system we observe as a single flower for one second, BY CHANCE.?

The cause of that is then supposedly CHANCE, 10^120 of them every second, occurring in perfect capitulation and harmony with its own dynamic atomic and molecular structure, and every other thing in its environment from the bug on its petal out to cosmological distances where the light reflects off it's surface and races off into space.

Moreover, the argument turns to, "I know that sounds crazy, but that's the whacky world of..."

Give it up. We already know that the more simple answer and the one that actually has hard data is correct. Plug consciousness into the equation and the madness is solved. This physical world is interdependent on you. And that description is also suitable within the frameworks of every philosophy and religion of man. "The Whacky world of" explanation has been half a century and billions of dollars and come up completely empty handed.

So the physical brain is in itself, as I stated in my last post, a myriad of Wave Function Collapse, as a result of Consciousness, this is not up for speculation or philosophy but the hardest science yet known to man. In order for it (the physical brain) to exist in space-time as matter, in his case a physical brain- requires consciousness to paint that Brian into being via Wave Function Collapse (via a non mechanistic approach). The brain therefore cannot possibly be responsible for the effect of wave function collapse. Again, there is no brain, that 'thing' only exists as a construct of consciousness. This is not open to debate-period.

Now I will dismiss several common counter arguments to and describe why they fail. This in turn means that the physical brain cannot mathematically, or by any coherent function of the laws of physics, produce certainty. This means that it is mathematically incoherent that the physical brain can cause consciousness. It is not possible.

THEORIES OF THE BRAIN
There are a number of brain theories that have been put forth that simply do not work.

One such refers to 'microtubule' structures in the brain being the seat of anything quantum, the scaffold for this hypothesis was dismissed half a century before the creators ideas were born. In perspective, a microtubule is in diameter, relative to size on a quantum scale, as a man floating in a volume of space 10,000 times larger than the visible universe, hoping to 'interact' with the edge of that visible universe. There is no possibility whatsoever that a Quantum event can interact with the structure of a microtubule. All attempts to find this, what is referred to as 'Hall Effect,' have clearly indicated that it does not occur. As for the statement 'there have been no serious blows to this theory' I state, clearly, 'the laws of physics dismissed the theory half a century before It was suggested. The entire premise is based on an erroneous description of Quantum Scale events and a complete misunderstanding of the role of the structure of he brain along with no data other than speculation that is based on completely erroneous misconceptions in Quantum theory.

Misidentifying vocabulary words of this sort have lead people on life long careers searching down folly simply based on the misidentification of a vocabulary word. This hypothesis and others have shown up in popular urban myth breeding grounds such as 'prime time' serial documentaries and so on, all of which invariably home in on the nonsensical, deliberately, because the fiction is more compelling to draw in a viewing audience. However, the correct answer that you already know within yourself to be true is yet more compelling: you are in every sense of the word a god, creating the world around you and manipulating it at will.

And for those who will say "he's using deception!!! Slight of hand!!" Or accuse me of getting the formal definitions wrong. I encourage you, no, I BEG you to look it up on your own. Make sure I'm right if you don't believe me.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-01-2015, 11:10 PM
RE: Consciousness and QP
tl;dr again
The best that I can tell, you have not explained how consciousness can happen independent of a physical brain.
How do you detect consciousness with or without a brain?
How do you make the jump from human consciousness to a god?
Are you saying that if a god can be imagined then it is real?
Just lay it out there in plain english, someone of your obvious intelligence should be able to convey these ideas in a simple manner.
It either is or it isn't, QP doesn't seem necessary to explain it.
When you overcomplicate the issue with a lot of technical jargon, I tend to suspect you're trying to decieve with bullshit.
You seem to have created an eloborate watchmaker argument.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like pablo's post
14-01-2015, 11:15 PM
RE: Consciousness and QP
tl;dr

Why don’t you just paste the hyperlink to your ground-breaking, peer-reviewed, published, widely-accepted paper so I too may read it?

Wait...there isn’t one? Why not? You really should. You’ll probably recieve the Nobel Prize for Science!

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Full Circle's post
14-01-2015, 11:17 PM
RE: Consciousness and QP
So if I read all that its gonna prove god?

I think I've been missing the point of The Big Bang Theory.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-01-2015, 11:19 PM
RE: Consciousness and QP
FUCKING SERIOUSLY!

For the love of fucking Internet kid, just go fuck off already! I don't know?! Maybe, Go enjoy the Video game or movie section of our forum! Go to the pseudoscience and conspiracy forum and talk about the illuminati or maybe, go visit the music section of our forum.
DO ANYTHING BUT CONTINUE TO POST IN THIS SECTION PLEASE!!! We are getting tired of you and you will be banned soon if ya don't stop it.


My Youtube channel if anyone is interested.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEkRdbq...rLEz-0jEHQ
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-01-2015, 11:22 PM
RE: Consciousness and QP
(14-01-2015 11:10 PM)pablo Wrote:  tl;dr again
The best that I can tell, you have not explained how consciousness can happen independent of a physical brain.
How do you detect consciousness with or without a brain?
How do you make the jump from human consciousness to a god?
Are you saying that if a god can be imagined then it is real?
Just lay it out there in plain english, someone of your obvious intelligence should be able to convey these ideas in a simple manner.
It either is or it isn't, QP doesn't seem necessary to explain it.
When you overcomplicate the issue with a lot of technical jargon, I tend to suspect you're trying to decieve with bullshit.
You seem to have created an eloborate watchmaker argument.

Tl dr?? Do you expect an explanation in a couple sentences. You are missing my point completely. There is no jump from "being human" to "being a God". None of what I have presented is speculation. The confusion is because it doesn't match up win your model of the universe...all your questions were answered in there.

As far as "detecting consciousness with or without a brain". What has been discovered, and is beyond speculation, is that consciousness, the act of observing a particle, causes the collapse of the wave function. There is absolutely no certainty unless the particle has been observed. It is superpositioned throughout space-time. The freezing of time by constant observation is the Quantum Zeno Effect. Wave Function collapse is the moment you take your eyes off it--it changes to another, possibly final state. Eyes on--Quantum Zeno Effect; frozen, blink our eyes--wave function collapse, changes to another state.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-01-2015, 11:22 PM
RE: Consciousness and QP
Have you read Dan Dennett's views on CONSCIOUSNESS?

Wink

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-01-2015, 11:24 PM
RE: Consciousness and QP
Yeah, you're gonna have to make that more succinct before I'm gonna invest my calories. Drinking Beverage

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-01-2015, 11:24 PM
RE: Consciousness and QP
(14-01-2015 11:15 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  tl;dr

Why don’t you just paste the hyperlink to your ground-breaking, peer-reviewed, published, widely-accepted paper so I too may read it?

Wait...there isn’t one? Why not? You really should. You’ll probably recieve the Nobel Prize for Science!

This has all been known for decades. It is not accepted only because modern scientists refuse to accept that consciousness plays any role whatsoever. Which is absurd.

As I said check my sources make sure what I'm saying is correct. Getting angry at me will not do anything.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
14-01-2015, 11:25 PM
RE: Consciousness and QP
(14-01-2015 11:22 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  
(14-01-2015 11:10 PM)pablo Wrote:  tl;dr again
The best that I can tell, you have not explained how consciousness can happen independent of a physical brain.
How do you detect consciousness with or without a brain?
How do you make the jump from human consciousness to a god?
Are you saying that if a god can be imagined then it is real?
Just lay it out there in plain english, someone of your obvious intelligence should be able to convey these ideas in a simple manner.
It either is or it isn't, QP doesn't seem necessary to explain it.
When you overcomplicate the issue with a lot of technical jargon, I tend to suspect you're trying to decieve with bullshit.
You seem to have created an eloborate watchmaker argument.

Tl dr?? Do you expect an explanation in a couple sentences. You are missing my point completely. There is no jump from "being human" to "being a God". None of what I have presented is speculation. The confusion is because it doesn't match up win your model of the universe...all your questions were answered in there.

As far as "detecting consciousness with or without a brain". What has been discovered, and is beyond speculation, is that consciousness, the act of observing a particle, causes the collapse of the wave function. There is absolutely no certainty unless the particle has been observed. It is superpositioned throughout space-time. The freezing of time by constant observation is the Quantum Zeno Effect. Wave Function collapse is the moment you take your eyes off it--it changes to another, possibly final state. Eyes on--Quantum Zeno Effect; frozen, blink our eyes--wave function collapse, changes to another state.

So, in other words, you can't observe consciousness so you're guessing.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: