Consciousness and QP
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15-01-2015, 10:19 AM (This post was last modified: 15-01-2015 10:25 AM by Chas.)
RE: Consciousness and QP
(15-01-2015 10:03 AM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  
(15-01-2015 09:02 AM)Chas Wrote:  Which consciousness? What does it do? What was the universe before there were conscious beings? What about events in the universe that have not yet been observed?

You utterly misunderstand the phrase "collapse of the wave function". It is not a physical event, it is a description of information.

Unfortunately you sir don't understand. In the Copenhagen interpretation of QP the conscious observer is paramount. This "discription of information" is only information because somewhere down the line it is observed as such. You cannot think your way out of this...

I understand quite well. The Copenhagen Interpretation is a minority position among the 27 or so interpretations of QM.

The Copenhagen Interpretation is the interpretation lampooned by Schrödinger with his cat.

You are still confabulating measurement, observation, and consciousness.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-01-2015, 10:21 AM
RE: Consciousness and QP
mmhm1234 wrote
Quote:There is absolutely no proof the brain creates consciousness.

Evidence?
According to your statement, you were conscious before you were born or even conceived.
Do you remember that?
Lay some reincarnation on me!
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15-01-2015, 10:22 AM
RE: Consciousness and QP
(15-01-2015 08:57 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(15-01-2015 08:35 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Didn't read. Saw "quantum physics" in the second sentence and saw the length of the post. I'm going to assume the rest is incoherent word salad and/or non sequiturs.

You, sir, would be right.

Throw in a dash of conspiracy theory and self-inflated ego just for fun.

A twofer! Double glad I passed.
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15-01-2015, 11:13 AM
RE: Consciousness and QP
(15-01-2015 10:21 AM)pablo Wrote:  mmhm1234 wrote
Quote:There is absolutely no proof the brain creates consciousness.

Evidence?
According to your statement, you were conscious before you were born or even conceived.
Do you remember that?
Lay some reincarnation on me!

Yes, that is precisely what I mean. You have no access to your memories of your existence prior to this one. But in order for a 'thing' to truly exist it HAS to be eternal. The argument 'I exist now but cease to exist after death' is invalid. It is against the axioms I presented regarding limits at infinity. This entire universe exists in the blink of an eye...it is an infinitesimal. You, your current personality, everything you think of as 'you' is an infinitesimal finite construct. Your thoughts may be a perception, your consciousness is actually an infinite being of infinite scope. You have never not existed. You existed long before this universe was created, and you will exist long after it is gone.

All creation must have a creator I.e. God. As I said in my main body, the mechanistic view that all these extremely complex systems have formed out of inert matter, and have somehow adopted a system of observing themselves...and that this all happened by CHANCE?? That's the best argument you guys can muster? That's it? The probability of such being the case is zero. It is impossible. A mechanistic universe will never be proven, because it simply does not exist.
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15-01-2015, 11:17 AM
RE: Consciousness and QP

O Look, it came back. I am still waiting to see your mathematical proofs that support your assertions.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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15-01-2015, 11:18 AM
RE: Consciousness and QP
(15-01-2015 10:19 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(15-01-2015 10:03 AM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  Unfortunately you sir don't understand. In the Copenhagen interpretation of QP the conscious observer is paramount. This "discription of information" is only information because somewhere down the line it is observed as such. You cannot think your way out of this...

I understand quite well. The Copenhagen Interpretation is a minority position among the 27 or so interpretations of QM.

The Copenhagen Interpretation is the interpretation lampooned by Schrödinger with his cat.

You are still confabulating measurement, observation, and consciousness.

The Copenhagen interpretation was the one the founding fathers of QP agreed upon. All the other bizarre interpretations came years later and were ultimately because they didn't accept he Copenhagen interpretation. Such interpretations are bandaged from head to to with ridiculous mathematics that create even more bizarre theories such as the multiple universes spraying out to infinity upon infinity of all "the other outcomes".
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15-01-2015, 11:19 AM
RE: Consciousness and QP
(15-01-2015 11:17 AM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  
(15-01-2015 08:49 AM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  

O Look, it came back. I am still waiting to see your mathematical proofs that support your assertions.

I don't have the right symbols on my keyboard. Want me to write them out and put a picture up?
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15-01-2015, 11:21 AM
RE: Consciousness and QP
(15-01-2015 11:19 AM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  
(15-01-2015 11:17 AM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  O Look, it came back. I am still waiting to see your mathematical proofs that support your assertions.

I don't have the right symbols on my keyboard. Want me to write them out and put a picture up?

YES!!!!! What the hell do you think I have been asking you for???!!!!!!!

If you have a conclusion, you surely must have done the proofs. Simply scan them in and post them. This really isn't that difficult.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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15-01-2015, 11:24 AM
RE: Consciousness and QP
(15-01-2015 11:21 AM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  
(15-01-2015 11:19 AM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  I don't have the right symbols on my keyboard. Want me to write them out and put a picture up?

YES!!!!! What the hell do you think I have been asking you for???!!!!!!!

If you have a conclusion, you surely must have done the proofs. Simply scan them in and post them. This really isn't that difficult.

I'll post them tonight I don't have time now...but sure I'd be happy to!!!
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15-01-2015, 11:25 AM
RE: Consciousness and QP
(15-01-2015 11:13 AM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  
(15-01-2015 10:21 AM)pablo Wrote:  mmhm1234 wrote
Evidence?
According to your statement, you were conscious before you were born or even conceived.
Do you remember that?
Lay some reincarnation on me!

All creation must have a creator I.e. God.

Let's say this "god" created everything, but the energies required were so immense this god annihilated itself as soon as it created the universe. So this universe runs from the laws set in place at the beginning with no supernatural intervention now.
That seems to be what we observe now, how could you prove otherwise?

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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