Consciousness is fundamental to reality
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14-06-2015, 05:13 PM
RE: Consciousness is fundamental to reality
(14-06-2015 04:52 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-06-2015 04:27 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  No it's far more dismal than that. I can't vouch for my own existence in a court of metaphysics. Don't know what the fuck the rest of you are thinking.

Yabut, you could build a circumstantial case. Consider

Yup. And circumstantial is good enough. I mean the fuck else we gonna do? Stare at my big fat belly button all omphaloskepsis-like?

#sigh
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14-06-2015, 06:00 PM
RE: Consciousness is fundamental to reality
Consciousness in the brain, and problems that arise (in consciousness) when brains are damaged or altered in some way by trauma or disease can be visualized on MRI (Magnetic Resonance Imaging) and PET (Positron Emission Tomography). This can go as far as visualizing the exact parts of brains that "light" up when various features of consciousness are present or activated. It's proof that consciousness resides in and is 100 % dependent on brain physiology. There is absolutely no question AT ALL about this among Neuroscientists.

http://www.owenlab.uwo.ca/pdf/2007-Owen-...ntages.pdf

http://www.imagilys.com/fmri-consciousne...ive-state/

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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14-06-2015, 06:14 PM
RE: Consciousness is fundamental to reality
con·scious·ness
ˈkän(t)SHəsnəs/
noun
1) the state of being awake and aware of one's surroundings.
2) the awareness or perception of something by a person.
3) the fact of awareness by the mind of itself and the world.

This is consciousness. All those definitions have one point in common. Consciousness is a tool of identification and perception. It permits creatures with consciousness to explore and understand their surroundings. It allows them to interact, react and transform their environment. It doesn't create anything. It doesn't even necessarily imply that it transform the subject it observes and interact with. It can and actually does it on numerous circumstances, but it’s not a necessity. For consciousness to exist, it needs a universe to interact with in the first place. To be awake and aware of one's surroundings, you need to have a surrounding; to have a perception, you need something to perceive; to be aware of itself and the world you need a world outside yourself. Thus, consciousness can't create the universe since it needs a universe to interact with to exist in the first place. Both can arise relatively simultaneously, but consciousness cannot be the cause of creation since it's a tool of interaction and perception. It would be like trying to make a four angle triangle the two concepts are incompatible. Thus, the universe, which doesn’t need to be observed to exist, is necessarily older than consciousness even if it’s just by a few seconds. A universe devoid of any form of consciousness can still operate under mechanistic process. It would be unrecorded and unnoticed, but it would be just has real.
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14-06-2015, 06:55 PM
RE: Consciousness is fundamental to reality
(14-06-2015 12:03 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  But you can't prove consciousness has not existed since the beginning of the universe.

He does not need to prove it as that's not how science works. Science does not have the responsibility of disproving every lunatics assertions. You are making a claim about reality and providing zero evidence to support your claim and thus we can dismiss it out of hand.

If you can't support your own assertion that's not a failure of science that's a failure of you. You have been asked multiple times to demonstrate the existence of this universe causing consciousness that predates physical brains and you have refused to even try. We do NOT have to prove the nonexistence of something, that's the exact opposite of the scientific method.

You have failed to support you're assertion, your assertion is dismissed.

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
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14-06-2015, 06:56 PM
RE: Consciousness is fundamental to reality
(14-06-2015 06:55 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(14-06-2015 12:03 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  But you can't prove consciousness has not existed since the beginning of the universe.

He does not need to prove it as that's not how science works. Science does not have the responsibility of disproving every lunatics assertions. You are making a claim about reality and providing zero evidence to support your claim and thus we can dismiss it out of hand.

If you can't support your own assertion that's not a failure of science that's a failure of you. You have been asked multiple times to demonstrate the existence of this universe causing consciousness that predates physical brains and you have refused to even try. We do NOT have to prove the nonexistence of something, that's the exact opposite of the scientific method.

You have failed to support you're assertion, your assertion is dismissed.

This is true.


There is a drumkit on the surface of Venus. Prove me wrong?

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
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14-06-2015, 07:01 PM
RE: Consciousness is fundamental to reality
(14-06-2015 01:24 PM)enochian Wrote:  From the Dzogchen point of view everything is the Five Pure Lights.

However in our ignorance we see what seems to be physical matter.

Prove it. Drinking Beverage

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14-06-2015, 07:01 PM
RE: Consciousness is fundamental to reality
Five pure lights? One of which shines out his arsehole.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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14-06-2015, 07:06 PM
RE: Consciousness is fundamental to reality
(14-06-2015 12:43 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  
(14-06-2015 12:36 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  You can't prove there isn't a 1957 Chevy orbiting Pluto.

Based on what we KNOW, (that the ONLY times we observe the emergence of consciousness ... it emerges from functioning brains) the issue of proving that didn't happen then is so remote, it's a waste of time. When and IF it's ever observed in any other context, THEN and only then is it worthwhile to go on your wild goose chase.

That's your best argument?
Considering it utterly refutes your entire assertion he does not need a better one shithead.

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
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14-06-2015, 09:34 PM
RE: Consciousness is fundamental to reality
(14-06-2015 07:06 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(14-06-2015 12:43 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  That's your best argument?
Considering it utterly refutes your entire assertion he does not need a better one shithead.

You mad?
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14-06-2015, 09:35 PM
RE: Consciousness is fundamental to reality
Sorry, I can't answer all of your replies, I don't have that kind of time. It has been an interesting debate, I don't think either side has presented irrefutable evidence (even though you may think you have).
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