Consciousness is fundamental to reality
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12-06-2015, 08:28 PM
RE: Consciousness is fundamental to reality
The chair is a physical object; your consciousness is a process. While they both exist, their existences are not equivalent.
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You are so disillusioned that somehow you think a fucking chair is more real than yourself. Lol what a strange world we live in.
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12-06-2015, 08:30 PM
RE: Consciousness is fundamental to reality
So what ? If your brain were damaged by disease or trauma, your consciousness would cease and the world would go on, just as before. Your consciousness is irrelevant to reality. You are 11 aren't you ?
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Your brain and consciousness are not the same. The brain is where all our human emotions, thoughts memories are stored, if it is damaged these will be impaired, my consciousness will not be impaired. The perception will be altered.
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12-06-2015, 08:31 PM
RE: Consciousness is fundamental to reality
(12-06-2015 08:28 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  You are so disillusioned that somehow you think a fucking chair is more real than yourself. Lol what a strange world we live in.

Show us where he said that. Are you on drugs ? (And it's "delusional", not "disillusioned". "Disillusioned" is something else entirely. You really have NO EDUCATION at all do you ?) https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#safe=...definition

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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12-06-2015, 08:33 PM
RE: Consciousness is fundamental to reality
At work.

Still waiting to see if OP can push clouds with their consciousness. ...
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12-06-2015, 08:33 PM (This post was last modified: 14-06-2015 03:49 AM by Chas.)
RE: Consciousness is fundamental to reality
(12-06-2015 08:28 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  
Chas Wrote:The chair is a physical object; your consciousness is a process. While they both exist, their existences are not equivalent.
You are so disillusioned that somehow you think a fucking chair is more real than yourself. Lol what a strange world we live in.

Well, you seem to live in a strange world. Consider

I didn't say one was more or less real - only that they have different kinds of existence.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-06-2015, 08:36 PM
RE: Consciousness is fundamental to reality
(12-06-2015 08:30 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  Your brain and consciousness are not the same. The brain is where all our human emotions, thoughts memories are stored, if it is damaged these will be impaired, my consciousness will not be impaired. The perception will be altered.

No. Completely false. Dead people or people with damaged brains have no consciousness. We can prove that with PET scans, MRIs, CT imaging, and EEGs, and NOT ONE Neurologist in the entire world agrees with your garbage. Consciousness EMERGES ONLY from healthy brains. You can provide NOT ONE example of, or evidence of consciousness, in the absence of a healthy brain.

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12-06-2015, 08:43 PM (This post was last modified: 12-06-2015 08:48 PM by mmhm1234.)
RE: Consciousness is fundamental to reality
Yes they do. You know nothing about Chaos Theory, and you didn't read the link. Order DOES arise spontaneously in this universe, and YOU have no idea what you are talking about when you *claim* it's "improbable". You have not demonstrated the probability, or how you arrived at that conclusion. Very very highly improbable events happen all the time. Yes, 1/googleplex improbable individual events happen all the time. Obviously you know nothing about math either. Anyone who took 1 science class knows about Chaos Theory. They forgot that in your Bible School I guess.
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*yawn* chaos theory is just that: a theory. So you, a scientific guy have the guts to ignore what the math is saying regarding the probability of something happening randomly and chuck it all up to probability?

Stop trying to condescend me with saying things like "Obviously you know nothing about math either. Anyone who took 1 science class knows about Chaos Theory." It gives me a chuckle to picture you saying this in a snooty British accent- one like Dawkins. You are not outsmarting me here. I know exactly what I am talking about. Apparently you know little about math because probabilities apparently have no meaning to you. And when the probability of something being so improbable that the chances of it occurring are googolplex upon googolplex to one, and you still claim that the "one" is the correct answer.

It reminds of dumb and dumber when jim Carey asks this beautiful women on a date and she tells him that the chances he has of dating her are one in a million and Jim Carey goes "SO YOUR SAYIN THERES A CHANCE!!":D except in your case we are dealing with googolplexes and not a million.

Somehow you think that the words 'random, chaos ,and chance' somehow are able to be warped to imply order. Random events do not produce order. And as I said, the chance of purely mechanistic dead, lifeless, matter spontaneously creating googolplexes of organized events is zero. Pot make things even more bizarre, the chance of inherently dead lifeless matter magically becoming aware of itself is also zero. To state that inherently dead, lifeless matter becoming conscious of itself is non-sequitur, it makes no sense whatsoever. Why are you even debating this with me?

I thought this website was the thinking atheist, but apparently there isn't much thinking occurring here.
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12-06-2015, 08:49 PM
RE: Consciousness is fundamental to reality
(12-06-2015 08:28 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  
Quote:The chair is a physical object; your consciousness is a process. While they both exist, their existences are not equivalent.
You are so disillusioned that somehow you think a fucking chair is more real than yourself. Lol what a strange world we live in.
Where do you get "a chair is more real than myself" out of "they both exist but are not equivalent"???? A physical object is different than a process. That is the point that was made. You need to address that, not some made up point that isn't even on the table.

You are mounting an argument from incredulity in the first place. That you can't or won't understand and/or don't like the difference between consciousness, self awareness and reality, or that you prefer to be a solipsist, is not our problem.

There is a lot we don't yet know about consciousness but that is not a license to make things up to fit a personal bias or desire. All available evidence says that damaged brains exhibit disordered thinking, destroyed / dead brains do not think at all, there are no discarnate entities, etc. As such the most likely outcome is that human-like consciousness and self-awareness will eventually be demonstrated to be an emergent property of certain configurations of physical, biological processes supported by sufficiently developed brains. Also, in principle, there's no reason a kind of machine consciousness isn't possible.
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12-06-2015, 08:51 PM
RE: Consciousness is fundamental to reality
(12-06-2015 08:43 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  *yawn* chaos theory is just that: a theory. So you, a scientific guy have the guts to ignore what the math is saying regarding the probability of something happening randomly and chuck it all up to probability?

Probability is not "random". Take a class some day.
Gravity is "just a theory" too, you idiot.

(12-06-2015 08:43 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  Stop trying to condescend me with saying things like "Obviously you know nothing about math either. Anyone who took 1 science class knows about Chaos Theory." It gives me a chuckle to picture you saying this in a snooty British accent- one like Dawkins. You are not outsmarting me here. I know exactly what I am talking about. Apparently you know little about math because probabilities apparently have no meaning to you. And when the probability of something being so improbable that the chances of it occurring are googolplex upon googolplex to one, and you still claim that the "one" is the correct answer.

"condescend" is not an active verb, dear. But thanks for proving you have no clue what 1/googleplex even means, mathematically.

(12-06-2015 08:43 PM)mmhm1234 Wrote:  It reminds of dumb and dumber when jim Carey asks this beautiful women on a date and she tells him that the chances he has of dating her are one in a million and Jim Carey goes "SO YOUR SAYIN THERES A CHANCE!!":D except in your case we are dealing with googolplexes and not a million.

I thought this website was the thinking atheist, but apparently there isn't much thinking occurring here.

So you can't answer even ONE objection directly or intelligently.
That's what we thought. (BTW, it's "googleplexes").

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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12-06-2015, 08:51 PM
RE: Consciousness is fundamental to reality
«Your brain and consciousness are not the same. The brain is where all our human emotions, thoughts memories are stored, if it is damaged these will be impaired, my consciousness will not be impaired. The perception will be altered. »

Emotions, thoughts, memories are the basic component of consciousness. They are what defines consciousness. You need these to have a consciousness. Since emotions, thoughts, memories are a function of the brain, it stand to reason that the immediate consequence of these functions, consciousness, is therefore completely dependent of the brain too. If you have brain damage, your state consciousness will be altered or even destroyed. Yes those «mundane chemical and signals» are all there is to your mind or mine.
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