Consensus
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06-07-2017, 06:58 AM
RE: Consensus
Quote:If you don't care about the rep system, why are you bothering to read comments left by members on your rep system? Why are you making a post to discuss the rep system?
... i mean its just sitting there. I'm not really doing anything else. How does someone start out watching Dawkins on YouTube only to end up at cat videos?

As to the reason for making the post in the first place. It came up in another thread that wasnt about rep systems.
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06-07-2017, 07:07 AM
RE: Consensus
(06-07-2017 05:04 AM)BlkFnx Wrote:  I will lay out my objection to reputation system. For anyone who has seen Black Mirror season 3 you will know exactly where I am going with this. Rep systems are fundamentally flawed because they rely on the consensus and silent voices of dissent. Very quickly individuals can find themselves black listed for voicing opposing views. This leads to a snake eating it's own tail, with individuals being excommunicated for stepping outside the acceptable doctrine. I was ridiculed elsewhere on this forum for saying that I don't care what the consensus says. Not too long ago the consensus was that slavery was alright because the bible said so. There have been all kinds of things believed and done in the name of consensus. We (humans as a whole) like to look back on the past as if we are at the height of human existence, of course our ancestors were ignorant savages. Consider the arrogance of that belief. We learned language, art, music, fire, and so much more from our Neanderthal cousins. Who's to say they didn't have writing, lot can be lost in 250,000 years. All of this was ridiculed and mocked by the consensus because at one point the facts didn't fit the accepted narrative. Up until the last decade "scientists" were still pushing the idea that most mammals were monogamous, now we know less than 3%(perhaps, maybe, we really hope) are monogamous. I don't care about the consensus I care about the facts. Show me the raw data. Rep systems are bunk. Consensus is bunk. It's how you end up with an inbred ideology.

How sure am I of my own views? Don't take refuge in the false security of consensus, and the feeling that whatever you think your bound to be okay, because your in the safely moral majority."-- Christopher Hitchens

Stay Skeptical

*Thanks to Buckey Ball for the spell check. I'm dyslexic so I always appreciate the assit.

I think the negative rating I gave you marks my 3rd or 4th (Maybe only second!) negative rating that I've ever dished out in my nearly two years on this forum. On many people who are deep in the red, I often leave a little green just because some nice feedback can be uplifting in a sea of negativity.

For you, I was willing to make an exception. You really are an arrogant, over-confident person who seems way too secure in your own position, but who clearly has a one-sided education on the subjects you're discussing. Numerous times you insisted that its our responsibility to prove to you that altruism exists. ....Uh, that's not our job. We're not here to educate you. We can have a conversation, walk away with new nuggets of information to ponder, but it's on you to open your mind and try to see things from a different perspective and in a different light. Whether you agree or disagree is no where near as important as taking new perspectives into consideration and really trying to see where other people are coming from.

... And then to find out that you don't even hold the views of the arguments you're being so obstinate about?

Fuck off. I don't need to prove my position to you. I don't require your validation to feel confident and comfortable with my world-view. We present our views to one another, you can ask questions about what individually motivates us, then and
you stop and consider things in a new light. Finally, we decide to agree or disagree with each other, and you present those reasons to the forum. The goal isn't for us to come out of the conversation with a unified consensus about what's right and what's wrong.

Most of the people around here are ex-Christians who left the religion because they don't like the way Christians think and operate. They don't want to view the world like one way is wholly right and all other ways are wholly wrong. You may or may not really be an atheist, but you act exactly like a fully indoctrinated Christian.
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06-07-2017, 07:14 AM
RE: Consensus
(06-07-2017 05:04 AM)BlkFnx Wrote:  I will lay out my objection to reputation system.

You think you can and should change this forum.

You are wrong.

You think we have to prove ourselves to you.

You are wrong.

You think social groups must be shallow and unthinking.

You are wrong.

You think opposing people just to make them think is useful to them.

You are wrong.

You think you are the right person for the job.

You are wrong. That's why you are downvoted.
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06-07-2017, 07:15 AM
RE: Consensus
(06-07-2017 06:58 AM)BlkFnx Wrote:  
Quote:If you don't care about the rep system, why are you bothering to read comments left by members on your rep system? Why are you making a post to discuss the rep system?
... i mean its just sitting there. I'm not really doing anything else. How does someone start out watching Dawkins on YouTube only to end up at cat videos?

As to the reason for making the post in the first place. It came up in another thread that wasnt about rep systems.
If you disagree with the rep system, don't use it.

Unlike that black mirror episode, we're not going to use it to give you a better job or position of power, or anything like that, (that is a good episode by the way and something you could see happening. Could be the word of choice there), it's based upon your personal input into the forum.

If you don't care, then that's fine, you don't have to rep anybody in return. It's a voluntary system. People are rep'ing you personally based upon your actions on the forum. Is that partly based upon you going against the grain, in terms of the majority view? Yes it is, but mostly because you do so with ludicrous ideas that have not much in the ways of backing it up factually, and do so in a manner that makes you like like a bit of a gimp in the process.

If you want to change your perception, then do so. If not, that's fine as well. Just do the thing you want to do, and stop replying here like some petulant child all like "well I don't care anyway so screw you guys Weeping ".

"I don't do magic, Morty, I do science. One takes brains, the other takes dark eye liner" - Rick
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06-07-2017, 07:38 AM
RE: Consensus
(06-07-2017 06:23 AM)BlkFnx Wrote:  
(06-07-2017 06:20 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Nope. False.
Rep point are INDIVIDUALLY given. The total may reflect a total of individual opinions, but the entire OP is based on a false idea. There is nothing "silent" about individuals who decide, totally independently, to give or take a rep away.
The entire OP is the fallacy of the false analogy.

You need cheese with your whine.

And how is this different than any other rep system that exists?

And why is that a relevant question HERE ?

Maybe it isn't any different.
Maybe your entire notion is bs ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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06-07-2017, 07:44 AM
RE: Consensus
Your rep number has no effect on your ability to make posts or participate in discussions here. It's fine to ignore it. It does, to an extent, reflect how your communications are being received. As you claim to be interested in understanding exactly that, maybe it would be useful for you to consider the rep system as information that your approach needs tweaking.

There are multiple members whose reps have gone from negative to positive (and back again). Most of these swings have not been in response to change in the content of their ideas or the quality of their arguments. It's the conversations' tone and the respect (or disrespect) for other posters that make for a shift in rep.

You don't have to like it to learn something useful from it.
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06-07-2017, 07:49 AM (This post was last modified: 06-07-2017 08:08 AM by jennybee.)
RE: Consensus
(06-07-2017 06:58 AM)BlkFnx Wrote:  
Quote:If you don't care about the rep system, why are you bothering to read comments left by members on your rep system? Why are you making a post to discuss the rep system?
... i mean its just sitting there. I'm not really doing anything else. How does someone start out watching Dawkins on YouTube only to end up at cat videos?

As to the reason for making the post in the first place. It came up in another thread that wasnt about rep systems.

But there has to be some level of interest to watch the cat videos. For instance, if I'm watching Dawkins and a "An in-depth look at how to fix your refrigerator" video pops up, I'm not going to watch it (unless of course, I need to fix my fridge) Wink

I think when you are in the red continuously you might think it's solely because you have differing opinions or viewpoints from many of the other members on TTA. However, we have other members on here--theists--on an atheist forum, who have managed to garner only positive reps from the TTA atheist community. So maybe it's not necessarily what you say, but how you say it?

I haven't spoken with you on here, but in reading your neg rep count, the word "arrogant" came up. Do you think maybe you are doing something to attract negative attention in terms of how you are expressing your viewpoints? I dunno, just sayin' Wink

Otherwise if you truly don't care just carry on with what you are doing.
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06-07-2017, 08:08 AM
RE: Consensus
It's really not that difficult to disagree with someone and not be an asshole about it. You might still get some neg rep for disagreement, but you'll also get positive for disagreeing and being a good sport about it. I disagree with a lot of people on these forums, and I agree with a lot of them, too. Sometimes I speak up even when my opinion is not in line with whatever I perceive might be consensus. Sometimes I'm surprised by the result, and sometimes I'm not.

I try hard not to be an ass about things, and with a few notable exceptions, I think I'm generally able to post dissent without being an ass.

I think everyone is capable of doing so. That doesn't mean you'll still be in the green, but it does mean that you'll probably at least have some respect.

Oh, and engaging in bad faith arguments will get you nowhere on this forum.
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06-07-2017, 08:31 AM
RE: Consensus
(06-07-2017 06:21 AM)BlkFnx Wrote:  That assumes that I actually in anyway care. If I did that would kind of be contrary to what I said in the original post.

Wow this is going into my personal "I'm butthurt over rep so I'm going to create a thread to complain about rep" file.

Laugh out load


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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06-07-2017, 09:05 AM
RE: Consensus
(06-07-2017 06:21 AM)BlkFnx Wrote:  That assumes that I actually in anyway care...

LOL... so you don't care at all for rep systems... and yet you're apparently so upset at being in the red that you feel the need to start a new thread denying how upset you are? Big Grin

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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