Consensus
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07-07-2017, 02:41 PM
RE: Consensus
(07-07-2017 02:07 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 01:38 PM)BlkFnx Wrote:  I actually didn't know that someone who was negative couldn't rate others. This is exactly the kind of positive feedback loop which I am criticizing. Let me make my own personal position clear. Even if the rep system were a negative feedback system I still wouldn't participate in it, because there are still problems in such a system. As far as positive systems, without negative feedback it is easy to game the system in such a way that those who hold contrary views and opinions can easily be silenced, and or discredited simply for having a contrary view.

**Rep wars**

Actually that's exactly why we don't allow neg rep people to give rep.

They aren't silenced and are free to share their thoughts anywhere except in rep and by the way that's how they're judged. We also don't allow people without rep give rep. Oh the humanity!

There are forums that only allow positive rep, a system I find very confusing.

And as to your remarks about creating a feedback loop and shit like that...

It's all mental maturbatiion on your part and something you wouldn't have thought twice about, if you hadn't landed with neg rep to begin with.

Your rep was earned by your posts here, nothing else.

If they are excluded then they are silenced. I did not say they are silenced (banned) from posting. They are silenced from the rep system.

In addition to addressing the positive rep systems I also addressed the problem with negative rep systems. Both kinds of systems have serious flaws.
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07-07-2017, 02:43 PM
RE: Consensus
(07-07-2017 02:33 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 02:23 PM)morondog Wrote:  I believe you are misquoting our esteemed new member who knows so much about mental masturbation, circle jerks and the like. Whiskeydebates was the one who said the sentence you quoted.

Ah, I see. Thanks for the correction. Looks like I was quoting both.

In that case, WD is the poopyhead and "our esteemed new member" is continuing his trajectory of confusing the fuck outta me with his peculiar post construction.

In my defense, it's 4:30 in the morning.

Sleepy

Nah, I think Erx and Bemore were eejits. WD is on point, except why *would* anyone with massively positive rep give a shit about deconstructing the rep system. Besides if they're a flower fairy like Erxmore?

In an attempt to explain, from what I can make out, our rigid and forward pointing new member seems to take issue with the idea of scientific or scholarly consensus in general, because it conflicts with his shitty ideas. Also he's pissed that people don't like him and he has to wear the badge of their dislike. Therefore he is arguing on philosophical grounds that consensus is a Bad Idea ™.

Which is pretty goddamn weak.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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07-07-2017, 02:48 PM
RE: Consensus
(07-07-2017 02:32 PM)BlkFnx Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 02:12 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Your "entire time" being merely 2 weeks.

You really are poopyhead, aren't you?

There's a search function. You can use that to discover how +ve repped people have criticised the system in bygone eras.

Erx and bemore spring to mind as people who have asked for their high +ve rep scores to be deleted.

Rolleyes

I didn't post the statement "In my entire time being here..." which is why it was in a quote box. This post was not "TTA should do away with their reputation system". It was and is intended to point out the problem with reputation systems in general, and the argument from consensus in particular.

Also as I have said previously in this thread, this was a break off from a part of another post I made. Cut and pasted it from part of a response in another thread because it didn't belong there. While I could have pasted it to another thread that already existed the focus which I spend 3/4ths of the original post discussing is the problem with consensus. It is also the reason why this thread is not named "Reputation Systems". My problem with reputation systems is a subset of my problem with consensus overall.

If your point wasn't to criticize the reputation system specifically on this forum, then why bother posting here? It looks incredibly suspicious and finger-pointy. And being that you seem to disagree with their use in general, it's not a leap of logic to see that you don't approve of the idea of the TTA rep system. What other conclusion are we to draw besides the conclusion that you think there shouldn't be one in place here? It looks like you want to criticize TTA but maintain plausible deniability when people tell you that you're just doing it because you have neg rep.

In any case- I disagree with your assessment about rep systems in general, as this one has proven pretty useful. It's not perfect, there are high rep people that I think are absolute butt-faces and low rep people that deserve higher rep. But overall, it's useful.
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07-07-2017, 03:04 PM
RE: Consensus
(07-07-2017 02:48 PM)Emma Wrote:  If your point wasn't to criticize the reputation system specifically on this forum, then why bother posting here?
The reason why I posted it is because several times now OTHER people have brought up my reputation. I have once brought up my own reputation out of amusement. I wish I hadn't. DLJ made an aside about my reputation points. This was a response to that aside in particular. I made it have it's own thread because it was an aside and did not relate to the original thread.
Quote: It looks incredibly suspicious and finger-pointy. And being that you seem to disagree with their use in general, it's not a leap of logic to see that you don't approve of the idea of the TTA rep system. What other conclusion are we to draw besides the conclusion that you think there shouldn't be one in place here? It looks like you want to criticize TTA but maintain plausible deniability when people tell you that you're just doing it because you have neg rep.
I have not been a member here long enough to criticize the TTA rep system. I say this because I do not yet have an over all feel for how it is used. Also how it is used now does not reflect how it will be used in the future. Just because it is not used to - people who hold contrary views today does not mean it cannot nor will not do so in the future. This is my underlying and fundamental problem with rep systems in general.
Quote:In any case- I disagree with your assessment about rep systems in general, as this one has proven pretty useful. It's not perfect, there are high rep people that I think are absolute butt-faces and low rep people that deserve higher rep. But overall, it's useful.
This is why I am not criticizing TTA rep system in particular at this moment. I don't have an over all feel to make that kind of judgment. I categorically refuse say that because I have neg rep points this is a sign that TTA's rep system is a self reinforcing circle jerk. My concern (and I think it is a legitimate concern) is not that it is, but that it could very easily become that way.
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07-07-2017, 03:08 PM
RE: Consensus
(07-07-2017 02:43 PM)morondog Wrote:  Therefore he is arguing on philosophical grounds that consensus is a Bad Idea ™.

I don't believe I said argued that consensus is a bad idea.
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07-07-2017, 03:10 PM
RE: Consensus
(07-07-2017 03:04 PM)BlkFnx Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 02:48 PM)Emma Wrote:  If your point wasn't to criticize the reputation system specifically on this forum, then why bother posting here?
The reason why I posted it is because several times now OTHER people have brought up my reputation. I have once brought up my own reputation out of amusement. I wish I hadn't. DLJ made an aside about my reputation points. This was a response to that aside in particular. I made it have it's own thread because it was an aside and did not relate to the original thread.
Quote: It looks incredibly suspicious and finger-pointy. And being that you seem to disagree with their use in general, it's not a leap of logic to see that you don't approve of the idea of the TTA rep system. What other conclusion are we to draw besides the conclusion that you think there shouldn't be one in place here? It looks like you want to criticize TTA but maintain plausible deniability when people tell you that you're just doing it because you have neg rep.
I have not been a member here long enough to criticize the TTA rep system. I say this because I do not yet have an over all feel for how it is used. Also how it is used now does not reflect how it will be used in the future. Just because it is not used to - people who hold contrary views today does not mean it cannot nor will not do so in the future. This is my underlying and fundamental problem with rep systems in general.
Quote:In any case- I disagree with your assessment about rep systems in general, as this one has proven pretty useful. It's not perfect, there are high rep people that I think are absolute butt-faces and low rep people that deserve higher rep. But overall, it's useful.
This is why I am not criticizing TTA rep system in particular at this moment. I don't have an over all feel to make that kind of judgment. I categorically refuse say that because I have neg rep points this is a sign that TTA's rep system is a self reinforcing circle jerk. My concern (and I think it is a legitimate concern) is not that it is, but that it could very easily become that way.

It's really hard to believe that you're honestly concerned enough about the future of the TTA rep system to make a thread about it.

You have to admit that the optics are not in your favor here.
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07-07-2017, 03:15 PM
RE: Consensus
(07-07-2017 02:12 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 01:38 PM)BlkFnx Wrote:  ....
In my entire time being here on this forum I have never ONCE heard a person with an overwhelmingly positive reputation complain about the rep system. Not once to my knowledge.
...

Your "entire time" being merely 2 weeks.

You really are poopyhead, aren't you?

There's a search function. You can use that to discover how +ve repped people have criticised the system in bygone eras.

Erx and bemore spring to mind as people who have asked for their high +ve rep scores to be deleted.

Rolleyes

Stark deleted all his rep years ago.

I've honestly thought about doing it too. The only thing that stops me, are the rep comments received from some members I truly respected and it feels wrong to remove them.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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07-07-2017, 03:20 PM
RE: Consensus
(07-07-2017 02:41 PM)BlkFnx Wrote:  If they are excluded then they are silenced. I did not say they are silenced (banned) from posting. They are silenced from the rep system.

In addition to addressing the positive rep systems I also addressed the problem with negative rep systems. Both kinds of systems have serious flaws.

So what? Seriously do you think I give a flying fuck what you think? Do you actually think I'm going to change the rep system on this forum to accommodate the whining of one member?

I don't give a shit if you feel silenced because you can't give a rep point you never noticed you couldn't give to begin with.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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07-07-2017, 03:28 PM
RE: Consensus
(07-07-2017 03:15 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  ...
the rep comments received from some members I truly respected
...

Tense, noted.

Big Grin

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07-07-2017, 03:35 PM
RE: Consensus
I was/am a member of a forum that has pretty much run its course and dried up now, where there used to be the same kinds of (shall we call them) debates about the rep system. One April Fool's Day the existing rep system suddenly converted from points to gummy bears with no explanation. Besides being hilarious it evolved into kind of an interesting social experiment. It was amazing to see how generous some people would be with unlimited gummy bears to give and how many others would openly "steal" gummy bears. Many of those same people had never really bothered with the rep system before. In real life I detest gummy bears, but there I found myself openly begging to be gummed. I admit it, I was a gummy bear addict. There was an intervention staged. (Okay, not really on the intervention, but you get the idea.)

Gummy bear postings and sightings became a "thing" for a while. Kind of like the banana postings here. Which, by the way, is one of my personal favorites here.

Sadly something that was initially witty and funny (the gummy bear system) finally degenerated into something ugly and the entire rep system was permanently removed. I missed it. I like the rep system but I try to form my own opinions about who people "are" right now rather than who they may have been in the past. After all, I was a pretend-Christian in the past. I changed. I continue to change. I'd like to think I'm still evolving into a better version of me. To quote Alice in Wonderland, "It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then." And "I know who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then."

Though I enjoyed accumulating gummy bears let's be real here, I couldn't eat them. I couldn't trade them for gift cards. And losing them didn't take anything out of my wallet.

The whole subject makes me think of the show Whose Line is it Anyway? "where everything is made up and the points don't matter."

Perspective. Keep it in perspective. I'm here to find like-minded people who are going through, or have already been through some of the same stuff I am/have. But admittedly every single one of those five rep points I have been given (earned?) here each made me say "awwww." Especially that first one. That person knows why. And I appreciate each and every one. So clearly both positive and negative feedback has its place. I get it. If I have a vote I'd say keep the system in place. Or switch it for S'mores.




Where are we going and why am I in this hand basket?
"Life is not all lovely thorns and singing vultures, you know." ~ Morticia Addams
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