Considerations In Talking With Theists
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17-08-2012, 05:36 AM
RE: Considerations In Talking With Theists
(16-08-2012 03:41 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  Same here.
Haven't ever actually caused an adult Atheist to change his/her point of view.

I don't really expect to though. Unsure
Yeah, you shouldn't expect someone to become delusional after you've had a rational discussion with them. Drinking Beverage

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17-08-2012, 06:28 AM
RE: Considerations In Talking With Theists
(17-08-2012 05:36 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(16-08-2012 03:41 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  Same here.
Haven't ever actually caused an adult Atheist to change his/her point of view.

I don't really expect to though. Unsure
Yeah, you shouldn't expect someone to become delusional after you've had a rational discussion with them. Drinking Beverage

Right, having a rational discussion with people should not lead them to delusion. It should lead them to rational thinking.

But since your opinion is that my worldview is delusional, my guess is that your presumption is that I am incapable of rational discussions.
It's the average atheist mindset.
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17-08-2012, 07:15 AM
RE: Considerations In Talking With Theists
(17-08-2012 06:28 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  
(17-08-2012 05:36 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Yeah, you shouldn't expect someone to become delusional after you've had a rational discussion with them. Drinking Beverage

Right, having a rational discussion with people should not lead them to delusion. It should lead them to rational thinking.

But since my worldview is delusional, I am incapable of rational discussions.

It's the average atheist mindset.
I understand Drinking Beverage

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17-08-2012, 07:21 AM
RE: Considerations In Talking With Theists
(17-08-2012 07:15 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(17-08-2012 06:28 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  Right, having a rational discussion with people should not lead them to delusion. It should lead them to rational thinking.

But since my worldview is delusional, I am incapable of rational discussions.

It's the average atheist mindset.
I understand Drinking Beverage

Fixt Thumbsup

Aww,
So adult-like and rational Yes

“What you believe to be true will control you, whether it’s true or not.”

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17-08-2012, 07:25 AM
RE: Considerations In Talking With Theists
(17-08-2012 06:28 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  Right, having a rational discussion with people should not lead them to delusion. It should lead them to rational thinking.
Agreed. Thumbsup

(17-08-2012 06:28 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  But since your opinion is that my worldview is delusional, my guess is that your presumption is that I am incapable of rational discussions.
It's the average atheist mindset.
I understand Drinking Beverage
Whether or not one is delusional is not a matter of opinion.

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17-08-2012, 07:38 AM
RE: Considerations In Talking With Theists
(16-08-2012 12:15 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  Also, something I've noticed (But sometimes don't practice) is when someone is lashing out at me with all kinds of negatives and nastiness, if I act calm and reserved in my response, the opposite person usually calms down as well. Even if I do want to come at the person the same way they are coming at me...
Good point and I agree. It doesn't always happen, but sometimes it does and it's certainly worth it to try. On the other hand, responding in kind with more negatives or belligerence serves nothing more than to vent and is otherwise completely destructive to any real discussion.

(16-08-2012 02:20 PM)Vosur Wrote:  Jokes aside, have you ever debated with an adult fundamentalist/creationist/... and caused him/her to change his/her point of view by one bit? I have yet to experience that.
No, I can't say that I have, but then again, I'm not always debating with someone on those extremes. Sometimes it may be someone who "believes" because it's what they were brought up with and they haven't personally made religion any big priority in their life. In those cases, they haven't given the whole subject much thought either way. Also, many conversations take place on messageboards or similar places where many people who are not part of the discussion may end up reading it. If you sound like a jerk, there's a pretty good chance even some people leaning toward atheism may stop reading your posts. The bottom line is that rudeness and belligerence accomplish nothing productive in a debate unless that itself is your goal. But I would argue that, even if that's your goal, it's destructive to the cause of atheism as a whole.

(16-08-2012 05:38 PM)TrulyX Wrote:  And I say, "in the back of their minds" because I pretty much convinced that, even to most of the people who we might view as very religious, their actual belief in God is an afterthought. That is why I'm also convinced that if you are to get anything out of a conversation it would be through forcing them to question faith. It's already pretty accepted by both sides that there is absolutely no legitimate reason for a belief in God. So, if you can get any theist to, at the end of a conversation, think not only about why they believe in God, which will boil down to faith, but why it is they have chosen faith, basically getting them to reason about faith, I think you can call the conversation a win. That's regardless of what happens after you both move on.
That was an excellent post and I pretty much agree. The only part I'm not sure about is when you said "forcing them to question faith". If, by "force", you mean confronting them politely with atheist arguments they have never considered before, then I agree.

(17-08-2012 05:36 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(16-08-2012 03:41 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  Same here.
Haven't ever actually caused an adult Atheist to change his/her point of view.

I don't really expect to though. Unsure
Yeah, you shouldn't expect someone to become delusional after you've had a rational discussion with them. Drinking Beverage
That's precisely what I'm talking about. Labels such as "delusional" accomplish nothing productive. There are plenty of intelligent minded theists who have simply come to different conclusions about the universe than atheists. Whether or not they agree with you, why insult them?

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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17-08-2012, 07:41 AM
RE: Considerations In Talking With Theists
(17-08-2012 07:25 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Whether or not one is delusional is not a matter of opinion.

Do you know God does not exist?
Or, is it your opinion that God does not exist?

What is your claim?
This notion of Theists being delusional, must be based on fact and not "a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty".

So, what were you saying again?
Not a matter of opinion?Consider

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17-08-2012, 07:42 AM
RE: Considerations In Talking With Theists
(17-08-2012 07:21 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  
(17-08-2012 07:15 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Fixt Thumbsup

Aww,
So adult-like and rational Yes

No need to thank me, it was an easy mistake to make.

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17-08-2012, 07:46 AM
RE: Considerations In Talking With Theists
(17-08-2012 07:38 AM)Impulse Wrote:  That's precisely what I'm talking about. Labels such as "delusional" accomplish nothing productive. There are plenty of intelligent minded theists who have simply come to different conclusions about the universe than atheists. Whether or not they agree with you, why insult them?

You'd be the first Atheist to not call me delusional.
Shy

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17-08-2012, 07:48 AM
RE: Considerations In Talking With Theists
(17-08-2012 07:42 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(17-08-2012 07:21 AM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  Aww,
So adult-like and rational Yes

No need to thank me, it was an easy mistake to make.

I don't think the point of this Thread was well taken.

Kinda seemed to produce the opposite effect Dodgy

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