Conspiracy nuts linked to Religion?
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20-03-2013, 04:52 PM (This post was last modified: 20-03-2013 04:56 PM by Tartarus Sauce.)
RE: Conspiracy nuts linked to Religion?
Ah yes, I knew you would go there.

And you bring up a good point....the only problem is that it implies that ANY argument made against the US government is valid due to past instances of covert activities by the US not having information released to the public.

For example, IF the government did collapse the world trade centers, THEN they would have suppressed the documents surrounding the operation. No question about that. The problem is that it only remains a conditional statement:

If x (government did it), then y (lack of documental evidence)
Other things could cause y (like the government not being behind it, but rather terrorists did)
Because y (lack of documental evidence) happened, therefore it was x (government did it)

That is faulty logic. Just because we know what they would do if they were directly involved isn't proof that they actually were involved. The lack of documental evidence could just as easily be the result of the conspiratorial claims being a load of bullshit.

And quite frankly, that's all the 9/11 conspiracy claims have been so far.

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21-03-2013, 12:48 AM
Conspiracy nuts linked to Religion?
(20-03-2013 04:52 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  Ah yes, I knew you would go there.

And you bring up a good point....the only problem is that it implies that ANY argument made against the US government is valid due to past instances of covert activities by the US not having information released to the public.

For example, IF the government did collapse the world trade centers, THEN they would have suppressed the documents surrounding the operation. No question about that. The problem is that it only remains a conditional statement:

If x (government did it), then y (lack of documental evidence)
Other things could cause y (like the government not being behind it, but rather terrorists did)
Because y (lack of documental evidence) happened, therefore it was x (government did it)

That is faulty logic. Just because we know what they would do if they were directly involved isn't proof that they actually were involved. The lack of documental evidence could just as easily be the result of the conspiratorial claims being a load of bullshit.

And quite frankly, that's all the 9/11 conspiracy claims have been so far.

I am referring to facts which are now known and at one point were considered crazy conspiracy theories.

Imagine what someone would have been labelled as in the 50's if they were saying that the u.s. was and is doing medical experiments on poor people and minorities. Now there are declassified documents that show that these experiments did exist. However due to the " crazy conspiracy" logic this info was ignored and ridiculed for a long time, allowing more people to be tested on.
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21-03-2013, 12:54 AM
Conspiracy nuts linked to Religion?
(20-03-2013 04:52 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  Ah yes, I knew you would go there.

And you bring up a good point....the only problem is that it implies that ANY argument made against the US government is valid due to past instances of covert activities by the US not having information released to the public.

For example, IF the government did collapse the world trade centers, THEN they would have suppressed the documents surrounding the operation. No question about that. The problem is that it only remains a conditional statement:

If x (government did it), then y (lack of documental evidence)
Other things could cause y (like the government not being behind it, but rather terrorists did)
Because y (lack of documental evidence) happened, therefore it was x (government did it)

That is faulty logic. Just because we know what they would do if they were directly involved isn't proof that they actually were involved. The lack of documental evidence could just as easily be the result of the conspiratorial claims being a load of bullshit.

And quite frankly, that's all the 9/11 conspiracy claims have been so far.

As for 9-11, Sunni Muslims mercenaries carried out the attack. Who funds and has intelligence links to these Sunni groups? If you believe the u.s. stopped funding alqaeda before 9-11 then at what year did this intelligence connections to these groups cease being used? Nobody outside the u.s. media is even hiding the fact that alqaeda is being funded in Syria by the west and was funded in Libya recently. Did they stop funding alqaeda, lose all records the. Just start up again?
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21-03-2013, 05:35 AM
RE: Conspiracy nuts linked to Religion?
"The Arctic Sage" is a prime example of an non-religious conspiracy nut who posted his 9/11 and Holocaust Denial garbage all over this forum section.

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
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21-03-2013, 05:01 PM
Conspiracy nuts linked to Religion?
(21-03-2013 05:35 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  "The Arctic Sage" is a prime example of an non-religious conspiracy nut who posted his 9/11 and Holocaust Denial garbage all over this forum section.

For some reason now there seems to be more holocaust deniers. There are quite a few on this forum. I once brought up the holocaust of the Chinese under Japan or the Russians under the nazis which were both more than 10 million each and I was painted as a horrible person for mentioning these holocausts.

Bringing up the millions that die every year under the capitalist system or 3 million Vietnamese during the Vietnam war is a cardinal sin on this forum full of holocaust deniers.
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21-03-2013, 05:08 PM
RE: Conspiracy nuts linked to Religion?
(21-03-2013 05:01 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(21-03-2013 05:35 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  "The Arctic Sage" is a prime example of an non-religious conspiracy nut who posted his 9/11 and Holocaust Denial garbage all over this forum section.

For some reason now there seems to be more holocaust deniers. There are quite a few on this forum. I once brought up the holocaust of the Chinese under Japan or the Russians under the nazis which were both more than 10 million each and I was painted as a horrible person for mentioning these holocausts.

Bringing up the millions that die every year under the capitalist system or 3 million Vietnamese during the Vietnam war is a cardinal sin on this forum full of holocaust deniers.
Huh? When did we ever deny the millions killed by the Japanese, the millions killed by the nazis and German soldiers, the millions killed by the Americans and British during the bombing raids, and quite frankly, the millions killed by the Russians? Everybody was killing everybody in vast quantities, who is telling you otherwise?


And what is this about us denying the millions we killed in Vietnam? These are really bold and rather false accusations you are spouting. I certainly know I don't deny any of those.

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22-03-2013, 04:26 AM
RE: Conspiracy nuts linked to Religion?
Whoever killed more or less is not really the issue and no matter who did it or how, none of any is excusable. In other words, just b/c Stalin killed a few mio. of his own folks, doesn't make Hitler look any better wiping out some amount of the european population (not only jews).

Back to the conspiracy <-> religion link, I haven't read too much about Illuminati or free masons, but what both groups seem to have in common is that they rose as some sort of opposition to the church, yet they'd not give up deism completely if I got this right. I've also watched a clip of some bat shit crazy lies made by some of the conspiracy celebs, and I noticed the claim that the so called NWO is about to destroy religion. I also stumbled upon claims where skeptics (or anyone who publicly opposes religion) would be associated with that "illuminati" bunch. Therefore, I concluded that many conspiracy nuts seem have some religious motives in some way, a few of the wacky vids on youtube that I managed to watch not longer than 3 min often cited "scripture" as a reference to some bat shit crazy predictions.

"Some part of our being knows this is where we came from. We long to return, and we can, because the cosmos is also within us. We're made of star stuff. We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." (Carl Sagan)
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