Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
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20-06-2016, 12:11 PM
Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
I have a few questions and I apologize in advance if they're hard to understand.

I'm wondering if there are any contemporary accounts of Jesus. To be more specific, were there any people who lived during his time who were close to the areas his ministry (supposedly) visited who should have written about him or told others about him? How about people who were not so close but were known to write reliable accounts of what was happening in that region during that time? I'm also wondering if it's reasonable to expect that there should be non biblical contemporary accounts of him, considering that he (supposedly) preached to thousands and preformed miracles in front of many (possibly thousands)? Surely there were literate people who would have witnessed him first hand that would have wrote about him, and considering the nature of his ministry (legitimate miracles) even non literate people would have spread word about him that would have ended up being chronicled by others. Am I asking reasonable questions? I feel like they're obvious and I would appreciate it greatly if someone could take the time to help me understand why these things don't exist. I've asked Christians and was basically told that the accounts in the bible are sufficient to prove that he did in fact do the things written about him in the gospels (and so forth).

To be clear I'm asking for reliable contemporary accounts that didn't end up in the Bible or a part of Christian tradition. For example someone writing a letter to someone else about Jesus and what he was doing.

Thank you.
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20-06-2016, 01:14 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
Nope not one shred. This is not my work. I can't remember who wrote this but it was a member here. I saved it because I can't remember a lot of info at a time so I go back to this stuff to remind me. A I want to think the person that wrote thus it has helped me out so much.

Matthew 27:51-53
King James Version (KJV)
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

wow...so zombies...freaking ZOMBIES crawled out of the tombs and "appeared unto many"...and yet...yet...not one literate person at the time thought this was noteworthy enough to write down...nope 50 years later voila! the story is written down after having had this urban legend passed down from person to person...or perhaps completely made up at the time the BS story was fabricated. hmmmmm now a thinking person would suspect that someone at the time would have thought...wow, zombies! and put it into the written record...nope, not...one...word..in ...contemporary history.

Perhaps Philo of alexandria who was a reknown and respected historian who resided in this area during the time of jesus?...nope...but then of course, he never even mentions jesus

The early years of the Roman Republic is one of the most historically documented times in history. One of the writers alive during the time of Jesus was Philo-Judaeus (sometimes known as Philo of Alexandria).

Philo was born before the beginning of the Christian era, and lived until long after the reputed death of Christ. He wrote an account of the Jews covering the entire time that Christ is said to have existed on earth. He was living in or near Jerusalem when Christ’s miraculous birth and the Herodian massacre occurred. He was there when Christ made his triumphal entry into Jerusalem. He was there when the crucifixion happened with its attendant earthquake, supernatural darkness and resurrection of the dead took place – when Christ himself rose from the dead and in the presence of many witnesses ascended into heaven.

These amazing marvelous events which must have filled the world with amazement, had they really occurred, were all unknown to him. It was Philo who developed the doctrine of the Logos, or Word, and although this Word incarnate dwelt in that very land and in the presence of multitudes revealed himself and demonstrated his divine powers, Philo saw it not, nor apparently even heard of it.

Philo might be considered the investigative reporter of his day. He was there on location during the early first century, talking with people who should have remembered or at least heard the stories, observed, taking notes, documenting. He reported nothing about Jesus.

Odd...

Perhaps Justus..There was also a historian named Justus of Tiberius who was a native of Galilee, the homeland of Jesus. He wrote a history covering the time when Christ supposedly lived. This history is now lost, but a ninth century Christian scholar named Photius had read it and wrote: “he [Justus] makes not the least mention of the appearance of Christ, of what things happened to him, or other wonderful works that he did.”
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20-06-2016, 01:24 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(20-06-2016 12:11 PM)seoq Wrote:  I have a few questions and I apologize in advance if they're hard to understand.

I'm wondering if there are any contemporary accounts of Jesus. To be more specific, were there any people who lived during his time who were close to the areas his ministry (supposedly) visited who should have written about him or told others about him? How about people who were not so close but were known to write reliable accounts of what was happening in that region during that time? I'm also wondering if it's reasonable to expect that there should be non biblical contemporary accounts of him, considering that he (supposedly) preached to thousands and preformed miracles in front of many (possibly thousands)? Surely there were literate people who would have witnessed him first hand that would have wrote about him, and considering the nature of his ministry (legitimate miracles) even non literate people would have spread word about him that would have ended up being chronicled by others. Am I asking reasonable questions? I feel like they're obvious and I would appreciate it greatly if someone could take the time to help me understand why these things don't exist. I've asked Christians and was basically told that the accounts in the bible are sufficient to prove that he did in fact do the things written about him in the gospels (and so forth).

To be clear I'm asking for reliable contemporary accounts that didn't end up in the Bible or a part of Christian tradition. For example someone writing a letter to someone else about Jesus and what he was doing.

Thank you.

Well you might think so. But since they made it all up, the contemporary witnesses are missing. There was nothing to witness. Tongue

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/
See also on YouTube Dr. Richard Carrier's videos/lectures, and Dr. Price's also.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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20-06-2016, 01:36 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
Quote: I'm also wondering if it's reasonable to expect that there should be non biblical contemporary accounts of him

Imagine you are all powerful, and all knowing. You create a universe spanning at least 90 billion lightyears across (or so), with billions of galaxies with billions of suns each. Each sun being circled by several planets usually. Then in some backwater perfectly average galaxy you create a world full of life. Finally you take some dirt and form some kind of...muppet. You make a second one, slightly different, then you let them procreate for like...4000 years. You get pissed about whats going on down there and finally decide to fix it all by going down yourself, disguised as one of those muppets. You run around for some 30 odd years, trying to fix all this shit by doing all kinda badass awesome magic miracle stuff

but

damn, you forgot to tell someone to take pictures or notes.

Sounds pretty stupid, eh?

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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20-06-2016, 01:38 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
Try reading Nailed by David Fitzgerald. It addresses the complete an utter lack of non-gospel first century writings of an earthly Jesus. There should have been plenty of people that would have had an interest in writing about him and there are accounts of much less interesting would be messiahs, but not Jesus.

The gospels are enough to prove it??? Ask them to provide an example of what are considered three historical eyewitness testimonies in which you have an original testimony, and the second testimony is 70% lifted from the first and the third testimony of 50% lifted from the first.
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20-06-2016, 01:44 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(20-06-2016 12:11 PM)seoq Wrote:  I have a few questions and I apologize in advance if they're hard to understand.

I'm wondering if there are any contemporary accounts of Jesus. To be more specific, were there any people who lived during his time who were close to the areas his ministry (supposedly) visited who should have written about him or told others about him?

No

Quote: How about people who were not so close but were known to write reliable accounts of what was happening in that region during that time?

No

Quote:I'm also wondering if it's reasonable to expect that there should be non biblical contemporary accounts of him, considering that he (supposedly) preached to thousands and preformed miracles in front of many (possibly thousands)? Surely there were literate people who would have witnessed him first hand that would have wrote about him, and considering the nature of his ministry (legitimate miracles) even non literate people would have spread word about him that would have ended up being chronicled by others.

I'd certainly expect something

Quote:Am I asking reasonable questions? I feel like they're obvious and I would appreciate it greatly if someone could take the time to help me understand why these things don't exist.

They seem reasonable to me. The most likely explanation that I know of is that either there was no Jesus and it is all made up or that there was an obscure preacher (or preachers) that people later told stories about and the stories grew over time.

Quote:I've asked Christians and was basically told that the accounts in the bible are sufficient to prove that he did in fact do the things written about him in the gospels (and so forth).

That is true only if the accounts in the Harry Potter series are sufficient to prove that he existed.

Quote:To be clear I'm asking for reliable contemporary accounts that didn't end up in the Bible or a part of Christian tradition. For example someone writing a letter to someone else about Jesus and what he was doing.

There aren't any.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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20-06-2016, 01:59 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
You're not going to find any such information that corroborates the Bible outside of the Bible. We do have reliable historical accounts of other people who lived in those times in the same areas but Jesus isn't showing up anywhere until about 100 years after he died. Also many of the Gods that were worshiped during this time had similar stories with the miracle birth, death, resurrection, etc. so not only was Jesus perhaps made up or exaggerated beyond belief but his story is plagiarized so really no reason to think he's at all unique or special in the sense of a messiah sent to save us anyway.

Just think of this way, If I said there was a man who performed magic tricks, died and came back to life in 1916 but there are no news articles or stories written about him at all would you believe me? Even if there was a huge group of people who said "Yeah, I read that book about him that someone wrote, it must be real!" but that book was just written in 2016, there would be no reason to believe it really happened, it would just be a wild made up story that's also copied from other made up stories.

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20-06-2016, 02:26 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
Contemporary accounts of Thor, and his daddy Odin? aka Wooten. Are there any contemporary accounts of these guys or Loki sometimes referred to as a half brother of Thur and at times as a step brother. I have wondered if there are any actual records of Thor's hammer killing anyone at all or is it all just made up shit?
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20-06-2016, 03:13 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(20-06-2016 12:11 PM)seoq Wrote:  I have a few questions and I apologize in advance if they're hard to understand.

I'm wondering if there are any contemporary accounts of Jesus. To be more specific, were there any people who lived during his time who were close to the areas his ministry (supposedly) visited who should have written about him or told others about him? How about people who were not so close but were known to write reliable accounts of what was happening in that region during that time? I'm also wondering if it's reasonable to expect that there should be non biblical contemporary accounts of him, considering that he (supposedly) preached to thousands and preformed miracles in front of many (possibly thousands)? Surely there were literate people who would have witnessed him first hand that would have wrote about him, and considering the nature of his ministry (legitimate miracles) even non literate people would have spread word about him that would have ended up being chronicled by others. Am I asking reasonable questions? I feel like they're obvious and I would appreciate it greatly if someone could take the time to help me understand why these things don't exist. I've asked Christians and was basically told that the accounts in the bible are sufficient to prove that he did in fact do the things written about him in the gospels (and so forth).

To be clear I'm asking for reliable contemporary accounts that didn't end up in the Bible or a part of Christian tradition. For example someone writing a letter to someone else about Jesus and what he was doing.

Thank you.

Philo of Alexandria is one such person that lived during Jesus' time, lived in the area that Jesus lived in and is considered a reliable historical source. How much did Philo write about Jesus? Zero, nada, zilch.

This is the kind of thing that have caused many to question whether Jesus actually existed, it's just very weird, if Jesus was really that famous, that Philo wouldn't have written anything of him.

The earliest writings we have are from Paul, and he seems to be talking about a spirit form of a Christ, but he never mentions anything about a person that actually lived on the Earth.

However; later writings seem to have multiple, conflicting tales of this supposed person, the gospels. The stories of this person came after Paul's stories of the heavenly demi-god.

It seems as if the tales of a tangible human were constructed after the stories of a heavenly entity. Consider

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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20-06-2016, 07:59 PM (This post was last modified: 20-06-2016 08:20 PM by DLJ.)
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(20-06-2016 12:11 PM)seoq Wrote:  ...
I'm asking for reliable contemporary accounts that didn't end up in the Bible or a part of Christian tradition. For example someone writing a letter to someone else about Jesus and what he was doing.

Thank you.

Follow this link to find the work of an authority on the subject. Post #22 might be a good place to start.

(20-06-2016 01:14 PM)purpledaisies Wrote:  ... I want to think the person that wrote thus it has helped me out so much.

I think that the person who wrote thus was, judging by the style, GoodWithoutGod (see above link).
EDIT: And I've now done a text search to confirm it. It's post #230 in the " Share your de-conversion story" thread.

If you meant "I want thank the person who wrote this", you can show your appreciation in a number of ways:
A Private Message
Liking his post
Adding a positive comment to his Reputation Report

Send money.

Wink

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