Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
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22-06-2016, 02:07 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 01:45 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 01:30 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Calling out your dishonesty, isn't equivalent with me being dishonest. Your ignorance seems to make that a confusing concept for you.

-100 pts for trying so hard to be so ignorant

No, you're just a liar, whose dishonesty might be protected here, but I'll still call you out on it.

Please list my lies. Drinking Beverage I'll wait

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22-06-2016, 02:18 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 12:52 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 12:45 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  The bible is what is in question. So using the bible to try and allay criticisms of the bible is circular reasoning (at best).

As stated previously, the bible is collection of writings, by a variety of different people, with variety of different concerns and interest, who likely had no idea they would be eventually canonized into an anthology.

Any particular inference drawn from these sources can be criticized on their own merits, as to whether those inferences are sound, reasonable, more likely to be the case than not, or whether an alternative explanation is more likely to be the case.

The claim that historians, scholars, laymen, etc.. can't draw such inferences, seems to be nothing more than the silly belief of internet atheists.

The Bible can be treated as one work regardless of the number of authors of various pieces of it.
It is a collection of writings selected from a larger collection of writings hundreds and even thousands of years after the alleged events.
Without corroboration from outside that small collection, none of it can be accepted as factual regardless of whether or not there is internal support.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-06-2016, 02:19 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 01:42 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  And we do have writings, like that of Paul who might not have ever met Jesus, but did meet his disciples, and his brother.

How do you know Paul met his disciples and his brother? Because he said so?

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22-06-2016, 02:23 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 02:18 PM)Chas Wrote:  The Bible can be treated as one work regardless of the number of authors of various pieces of it.
It is a collection of writings selected from a larger collection of writings hundreds and even thousands of years after the alleged events.
Without corroboration from outside that small collection, none of it can be accepted as factual regardless of whether or not there is internal support.

No, scholars, historians, informed laymen can draw a variety of reasonable inferences from the writings of the bible, in regards to historical facts, etc.. beliefs that likely originated amongst the community, part of a particular tradition, etc....

You might want to tell those like Bart Ehrman they can't, but they'll likely just laugh at you.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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22-06-2016, 02:24 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 02:23 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 02:18 PM)Chas Wrote:  The Bible can be treated as one work regardless of the number of authors of various pieces of it.
It is a collection of writings selected from a larger collection of writings hundreds and even thousands of years after the alleged events.
Without corroboration from outside that small collection, none of it can be accepted as factual regardless of whether or not there is internal support.

No, scholars, historians, informed laymen can draw a variety of reasonable inferences from the writings of the bible, in regards to historical facts, etc.. beliefs that likely originated amongst the community, part of a particular tradition, etc....

You might want to tell those like Bart Ehrman they can't, but they'll likely just laugh at you.

Special pleading.

You ever going to back up your claim that I am a liar by listing the lies you're referring to? Or is this more bullshit from the tomato?

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22-06-2016, 02:33 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 02:19 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  How do you know Paul met his disciples and his brother? Because he said so?

Atheists complain about not having first-hand accounts, yet when first hand accounts are offered, they question whether or not the individual was lying. It's a shell game right?

Paul provides a first hand account of meeting his disciples and brothers. Are you suggesting he was lying about this? If not, than I'm not too sure what your argument is.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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22-06-2016, 02:34 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 02:33 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 02:19 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  How do you know Paul met his disciples and his brother? Because he said so?

Atheists complain about not having first-hand accounts, yet when first hand accounts are offered, they question whether or not the individual was lying. It's a shell game right?

Paul provides a first hand account of meeting his disciples and brothers. Are you suggesting he was lying about this? If not, than I'm not too sure what your argument is.

Now you're claiming that the gospels are first-hand accounts?

Also, you ever going to back up your claim that I am a liar and list what "lies" you're referring to? Or are you just going to keep up with the same ol' bullshit?

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22-06-2016, 02:38 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 02:18 PM)Chas Wrote:  It is a collection of writings selected from a larger collection of writings hundreds and even thousands of years after the alleged events.
Without corroboration from outside that small collection, none of it can be accepted as factual regardless of whether or not there is internal support.

And some of the writing were written a few short years after the events mentioned by them. And other using sources earlier and closer to the events than their own writings. Some explicitly state they're writing of historical events and happening, some just tell a story, a poem, etc....

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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22-06-2016, 02:39 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 02:34 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Now you're claiming that the gospels are first-hand accounts?

There you go lying again.

Quote:Also, you ever going to back up your claim that I am a liar and list what "lies" you're referring to? Or are you just going to keep up with the same ol' bullshit?

I just did.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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22-06-2016, 02:46 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 02:39 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 02:34 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Now you're claiming that the gospels are first-hand accounts?

There you go lying again.

Quote:Also, you ever going to back up your claim that I am a liar and list what "lies" you're referring to? Or are you just going to keep up with the same ol' bullshit?

I just did.

That makes no sense. YOU claim to give first-hand accounts of Jesus (using the gospels no less) but I'm lying by pointing it out?

Do you know what the word "lie" means?

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