Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 3 Votes - 2.33 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
19-07-2016, 10:48 AM (This post was last modified: 19-07-2016 10:52 AM by Chas.)
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(19-07-2016 07:33 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(19-07-2016 07:20 AM)Chas Wrote:  You still don't get it. Nobody can be from a town that didn't exist. Show evidence that it existed at the time that it is supposed to (1 BCE/1 CE).
We're still waiting.

No, you don't get it.

And this has already been pointed out, we have graves from that area, pottery, coins, even an excavated farmhouse all dating to the time of Jesus, or in some case much earlier.

Not to mention other evidence like this:

"A tablet at the Bibliothèque Nationale in Paris, dating to 50 CE, was sent from Nazareth to Paris in 1878. It contains an inscription known as the "Ordinance of Caesar" that outlines the penalty of death for those who violate tombs or graves. "

But lets see you continue on with your dishonesty.

You claim that archaeological evidence is the strongest form of evidence when it comes to history here, yet here you are attempting to dismiss archeological evidence, to suit your dishonesty.

No, let's see you provide evidence of your claims.

You still haven't learned that evidence is required. Facepalm

From Wikipedia:
"The Nazareth Inscription or Nazareth decree is a marble tablet inscribed in Greek with an edict from an unnamed Caesar ordering capital punishment for anyone caught disturbing graves or tombs. It is dated on the basis of epigraphy to the first half of the 1st century AD. Its provenance is unknown, but a French collector acquired the stone from Nazareth. It is now in the collections of the Louvre."

It's provenance is not known, and it's about disturbing graves. That supports a funerary site, not a village.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
19-07-2016, 10:54 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(19-07-2016 09:22 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Bonhoeffer said so. I don't need to "claim" anything.
He wrote a book on Christian community. Obviously you never read it.
No one who says they need no Jesus for their (crazy) cult brand of Christianity is in alignment with ANY Christian community. You are the VERY DEFINITION of a classical "heretic". You align with NO community. You cooked up your own brand.

More like you've erected your own strawman, lol.

You on the other hand suggested that the early followers of Jesus might not have believed that he was a historical person, and in the same breath suggest the original followers wouldn't be christian. You apparently can't even make sense of your own suggestions.

Quote:I never said anything about Borg or Trump. Y

You claimed to know what constitutes as a christian or not a christian, and I wanted to see you use your own criteria to classify whether these individuals fall under the christian or not christian label. Apparently that's too difficult of a request for you to comply with.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-07-2016, 10:55 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(19-07-2016 08:44 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(19-07-2016 08:29 AM)ohio_drg Wrote:  Once again. Painting with a broad brush while failing to actually address what was said with supporting evidence of your position.

I paint in a broad brush, because the tendency among folks here is tow toe the party line. Hence why folks like Mark Fulton who holds to the existence of historical Jesus, find himself arguing in support of ahistoricity, because that's what his chums over here are inclined to support.

Most people here seem to lack the sort of balls to carve out their own position,

Oh, not that bullshit again. Facepalm

Who does not have a position? Why do you think that person does not have a position? Be specific. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
19-07-2016, 11:06 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(19-07-2016 10:48 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(19-07-2016 07:33 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  No, you don't get it.

And this has already been pointed out, we have graves from that area, pottery, coins, even an excavated farmhouse all dating to the time of Jesus, or in some case much earlier.

Not to mention other evidence like this:

"A tablet at the Bibliothèque Nationale in Paris, dating to 50 CE, was sent from Nazareth to Paris in 1878. It contains an inscription known as the "Ordinance of Caesar" that outlines the penalty of death for those who violate tombs or graves. "

But lets see you continue on with your dishonesty.

You claim that archaeological evidence is the strongest form of evidence when it comes to history here, yet here you are attempting to dismiss archeological evidence, to suit your dishonesty.

No, let's see you provide evidence of your claims.

You still haven't learned that evidence is required. Facepalm

From Wikipedia:
"The Nazareth Inscription or Nazareth decree is a marble tablet inscribed in Greek with an edict from an unnamed Caesar ordering capital punishment for anyone caught disturbing graves or tombs. It is dated on the basis of epigraphy to the first half of the 1st century AD. Its provenance is unknown, but a French collector acquired the stone from Nazareth. It is now in the collections of the Louvre."

It's provenance is not known, and it's about disturbing graves. That supports a funerary site, not a village.

Yea, apparently apparently funeral sites exist in non-towns and villages, nor support the existence of an occupied historical region, I guess so do excavated farm-houses pottery, etc...

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-07-2016, 11:07 AM (This post was last modified: 19-07-2016 11:12 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(19-07-2016 10:55 AM)Chas Wrote:  Oh, not that bullshit again. Facepalm

Who does not have a position? Why do you think that person does not have a position? Be specific. Drinking Beverage

Anyone whose position is a lack of belief/position one way or the other. Like you who doesn't actually believe that Nazareth didn't exist at the time, and just miraculously appeared shorty after the time of Jesus, but would rather classify your position as a lack of a belief in whether it existed or not at the time.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-07-2016, 11:12 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(19-07-2016 11:06 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(19-07-2016 10:48 AM)Chas Wrote:  No, let's see you provide evidence of your claims.

You still haven't learned that evidence is required. Facepalm

From Wikipedia:
"The Nazareth Inscription or Nazareth decree is a marble tablet inscribed in Greek with an edict from an unnamed Caesar ordering capital punishment for anyone caught disturbing graves or tombs. It is dated on the basis of epigraphy to the first half of the 1st century AD. Its provenance is unknown, but a French collector acquired the stone from Nazareth. It is now in the collections of the Louvre."

It's provenance is not known, and it's about disturbing graves. That supports a funerary site, not a village.

Yea, apparently apparently funeral sites exist in non-towns and villages, nor support the existence of an occupied historical region, I guess so do excavated farm-houses pottery, etc...

Yes, funeral sites exist outside of towns/villages, even today. I see them all the time on bike rides out in the country. And to say that first-century Palestine was an occupied region says nothing about whether or not there was a town at any specific location within that region.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-07-2016, 11:15 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(19-07-2016 11:12 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Yes, funeral sites exist outside of towns/villages, even today. I see them all the time on bike rides out in the country. And to say that first-century Palestine was an occupied region says nothing about whether or not there was a town at any specific location within that region.


No when you have archaeological evidence from a site with a variety of graves, an excavated farm, pottery, coins, all dating to the period in question, it should go without saying that this was an occupied town that existed at the time.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
19-07-2016, 11:19 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(19-07-2016 11:07 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(19-07-2016 10:55 AM)Chas Wrote:  Oh, not that bullshit again. Facepalm

Who does not have a position? Why do you think that person does not have a position? Be specific. Drinking Beverage

Anyone whose position is a lack of belief/position one way or the other. Like you who doesn't actually believe that Nazareth didn't exist at the time, and just miraculously appeared shorty after the time of Jesus, but would rather classify your position as a lack of a belief in whether it existed or not at the time.

If you're referring to agnostics, let me clarify that for you. I am an agnostic, and I am also an atheist. One refers to knowledge, and the other to belief. I strongly believe that there is no "God" (especially not a personal God that cares how I spend my life and will eternally reward or punish me for it) -- hence I am an atheist. However, I do not claim certain knowledge of this. In fact, I think such knowledge is impossible. Hence I am an agnostic. This is a well-defined position, whether or not you admit it.

It is also possible (and perfectly OK) to say "I don't know" when there is insufficient evidence to draw a conclusion. This isn't a cop-out; it's just being honest. I have no clue whether or not Nazareth existed during the supposed lifetime of Jesus, so I'm staying out of that argument.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Grasshopper's post
19-07-2016, 11:24 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(19-07-2016 11:15 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(19-07-2016 11:12 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Yes, funeral sites exist outside of towns/villages, even today. I see them all the time on bike rides out in the country. And to say that first-century Palestine was an occupied region says nothing about whether or not there was a town at any specific location within that region.


No when you have archaeological evidence from a site with a variety of graves, an excavated farm, pottery, coins, all dating to the period in question, it should go without saying that this was an occupied town that existed at the time.

Sorry, but none of that says "town" to me. And you need to define "the period in question" and "at that time". "There were a few people living in the area some time during the first century" is quite different from "There was a town/village at this specific location in the year 4 B.C.". Other ancient towns (such as Pompeii, to give but one example) have a lot more in the way of building and structures than "an excavated farm".

I'm not saying there wasn't a town there. I honestly don't know. But none of your flimsy evidence proves there was.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Grasshopper's post
19-07-2016, 11:26 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(19-07-2016 11:19 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(19-07-2016 11:07 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Anyone whose position is a lack of belief/position one way or the other. Like you who doesn't actually believe that Nazareth didn't exist at the time, and just miraculously appeared shorty after the time of Jesus, but would rather classify your position as a lack of a belief in whether it existed or not at the time.

If you're referring to agnostics, let me clarify that for you. I am an agnostic, and I am also an atheist. One refers to knowledge, and the other to belief. I strongly believe that there is no "God" (especially not a personal God that cares how I spend my life and will eternally reward or punish me for it) -- hence I am an atheist. However, I do not claim certain knowledge of this. In fact, I think such knowledge is impossible. Hence I am an agnostic. This is a well-defined position, whether or not you admit it.

It is also possible (and perfectly OK) to say "I don't know" when there is insufficient evidence to draw a conclusion. This isn't a cop-out; it's just being honest. I have no clue whether or not Nazareth existed during the supposed lifetime of Jesus, so I'm staying out of that argument.

If you believe or strongly believe that God doesn't exist, but just don't hold this position with any absolute certainty, or the sort of certainty required to "know" that this is the case, what I said doesn't apply to you.

It's for those who define their own atheism, not as a belief/or strong belief that God/s do not exist, but as a lack a belief of one way or the other. And not merely as lacking "knowing" one way or the other, as would be the case of anything we believe is true, with anything less than absolute certainty.

A case in point, Chas doesn't believe that Nazareth didn't exist at the time, he merely lacks a belief one way or the other in regards to whether it existed at the time or not.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: