Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
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22-06-2016, 03:08 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 03:07 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 02:52 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  That solves that quandary. You don't know what "lie" or "liar" means or you're too dishonest to admit you said something blatantly dishonest just to be an ignorant dick.

I'm so surprised by this [/sarcasmfont]

When you claimed that suggested the goseps were first hand accounts, you were lying. I made no such claim.


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Reading what you wrote and then asking a question based off of that, isn't a lie. You just don't understand how conversation works

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22-06-2016, 03:13 PM
Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 03:08 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 03:07 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  When you claimed that suggested the goseps were first hand accounts, you were lying. I made no such claim.


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Reading what you wrote and then asking a question based off of that, isn't a lie. You just don't understand how conversation works


The post you quoted of mine was short and explicitly stated what I was referring to as a first hand account, which clearly wasn't the Gospels, or about the life of Jesus. It was about Paul's first hand account of meeting Jesus's brother and disciples. Either you're so dumb that you missed that, or intentionally suggested other wise in more than one post already, or in other words lied about what I claimed.


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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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22-06-2016, 03:37 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 03:07 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 03:02 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  "Time out" says referee Grasshopper. In the post to which you are responding, Tomasia did not claim that the Gospels are first-hand accounts. His claim was that "Paul provides a first-hand account of meeting his [i.e., Jesus's] disciples and brothers." Paul didn't write any Gospels. just sayin'.

I don't think either of you is lying here, but posts can be misread sometimes. Tomasia did not make the claim that you say he did.

I would like to add another observation of my own, though. According to Christian teaching (at least the Catholic teaching that I had), Jesus did not have any brothers, because his mother Mary was "ever virgin". So how could Paul meet these non-existent brothers?

Tomato had already claimed I was a "liar" and had yet to back that up.

Tomato has also claimed that the gospels are reliable for making accurate inferences about Jesus and the history of that time.

And Paul does not give a firsthand account of Jesus' life. He gives a firsthand account of what he claims are accounts from other people.

So no, no "time out" because tomato still needs to show me my lies.

All of that may be true in general, but you responded to a specific post and said "Now you're claiming that the Gospels are first-hand accounts." He made no such claim in the post to which you were responding. That's all I'm saying, and I stand by it. If you guys are going to throw mud at each other, at least stick to the facts of what was actually said.
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22-06-2016, 03:47 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 10:38 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  No, I'm just calling a sham a sham, which this whole cloth of lack of belief amounts to, nothing but dishonesty masquerading as one's intellect.

Jesus said "Judge not, lest ye be judged. YOU are no Christian.

Quote:It's not a result of sources and materials not allowing us to infer one way or the other, but a desire by individuals such as yourself to not hold positions to defend. Cowardice parading as bravery.

Childish bullshit. There are insufficient sources, despite the fact that your presuppositional bias REQUIRES them to be sufficient.

Quote:Folks like yourself attempt to see everything in regards to such topics through the lens of proof, of absolute certainty in such instances, not in regards of reasonable and unreasonable conclusions, what can be inferred as more likely to be the case than not, based on the available sources, etc. This posturing is all a sham of course, that presents itself only when topics related to religion come about.

Really. So that's now changed. I thought you said it my mind's pollution ?
100% wrong. You just contradicted yourself, idiot. I have always said we will never know. I NEVER said anything about absolutes. You have STILL YET to take on ONE argument, instead of making bullshit generalizations, Church Lady.

You have not addressed ANY of the SPECIFIC points. Josephus is not reliable, and you have no evidence for Jesus. You failed, and all your bla bla bullshit is not going to cover that up.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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22-06-2016, 04:11 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 03:37 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 03:07 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Tomato had already claimed I was a "liar" and had yet to back that up.

Tomato has also claimed that the gospels are reliable for making accurate inferences about Jesus and the history of that time.

And Paul does not give a firsthand account of Jesus' life. He gives a firsthand account of what he claims are accounts from other people.

So no, no "time out" because tomato still needs to show me my lies.

All of that may be true in general, but you responded to a specific post and said "Now you're claiming that the Gospels are first-hand accounts." He made no such claim in the post to which you were responding. That's all I'm saying, and I stand by it. If you guys are going to throw mud at each other, at least stick to the facts of what was actually said.

I am sticking to the facts of what was actually said, because what I actually said was: "Now you're claiming the gospels are first-hand accounts ?" There is a very explicit reason for why I put a "?" at the end of that question because Tomato's structure to his bullshit leaves one unable to comprehend what the fuck he is talking about.

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22-06-2016, 04:22 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 08:05 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 07:47 AM)unfogged Wrote:  Seoq, see this thread for a lot of discussion about Josephus's writings and Tomasia's completely dishonest style of apologetics.

Yes, in that thread I chased out a bunch of ridiculous claims by atheists, such as GoodwithoutGod, Rocketsurgeon, Bucky, running them out of town. And I'll do the same here.

Laugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out load

Oh dear child, you don't hold a candle to me on theological knowledge. But you and call of the wild can continue to convince yourselves otherwise if it makes your delusion more satisfying for you. Even you know that was a huge overreach of a statement.....funny though...but a huge overreach...how hubris of you.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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22-06-2016, 04:33 PM (This post was last modified: 22-06-2016 04:37 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 08:46 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 08:15 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  GoodWithoutGod, Rocket Surgeon, and Bucky Ball all have vastly more credibility here than you do, and generally provide more (and more reputable) sources for their statements than you do. I would say that they chased out your ridiculous claims.

When shit hit the fan, when it came time to talk about the actual sources, they left town. When I pointed out that their claims were not supported by the sources we have, they just miraculously disappeared from the discussion, to save face by not having to confess that they were wrong, or misled.

Dear child, did it occur to you some of us have busy lives? The reason I am not here much is because I am finishing my 4th degree (second masters), have a new job that I work 55-60 hours a week on, I am a gym rat, and have a family and new home to enjoy....all of which are higher on the to-do list then writing counters to your delusions.

By the way dipstick....if your jesus was so famous that people were coming from all over and gathering in throngs someone would have noticed...like Philo, who was in the area within 5-6 years....something that huge in magnitude going on would have garnered his attention...not to mention the oh so exciting entire world going dark from 3-6 pm, the earth shaking, and zombies bursting out of their tombs to dance about town....I would draw you a picture of how impossible that is, and how ridiculous, but you are to busy clutching your faith like a 5yo to his teddy bear to be able to apply reason and logic when reviewing all known evidence. You are still in the amateur ranks my dear disillusioned friend, and at a distinct disadvantage because you still believe in magic....like a 5yo. I have forgotten more about theology then you know, now run along and go read your favorite comic book "the bible."

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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22-06-2016, 04:34 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 04:11 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 03:37 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  All of that may be true in general, but you responded to a specific post and said "Now you're claiming that the Gospels are first-hand accounts." He made no such claim in the post to which you were responding. That's all I'm saying, and I stand by it. If you guys are going to throw mud at each other, at least stick to the facts of what was actually said.

I am sticking to the facts of what was actually said, because what I actually said was: "Now you're claiming the gospels are first-hand accounts ?" There is a very explicit reason for why I put a "?" at the end of that question because Tomato's structure to his bullshit leaves one unable to comprehend what the fuck he is talking about.

What he said in that post was perfectly clear to me. When you accused him of claiming that the gospels were first-hand accounts, I immediately said to myself "But he didn't say that", and then went back to check -- and sure enough, he didn't say that. In fact, I'm not sure I recall him ever saying that. It's OK to admit when you've made a mistake. We all do it from time to time (make mistakes, that is).
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22-06-2016, 04:48 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 04:34 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 04:11 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I am sticking to the facts of what was actually said, because what I actually said was: "Now you're claiming the gospels are first-hand accounts ?" There is a very explicit reason for why I put a "?" at the end of that question because Tomato's structure to his bullshit leaves one unable to comprehend what the fuck he is talking about.

What he said in that post was perfectly clear to me. When you accused him of claiming that the gospels were first-hand accounts, I immediately said to myself "But he didn't say that", and then went back to check -- and sure enough, he didn't say that. In fact, I'm not sure I recall him ever saying that. It's OK to admit when you've made a mistake. We all do it from time to time (make mistakes, that is).

I asked a question for him to clarify his bullshit. How is that a mistake? Consider

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22-06-2016, 04:54 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(22-06-2016 04:48 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 04:34 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  What he said in that post was perfectly clear to me. When you accused him of claiming that the gospels were first-hand accounts, I immediately said to myself "But he didn't say that", and then went back to check -- and sure enough, he didn't say that. In fact, I'm not sure I recall him ever saying that. It's OK to admit when you've made a mistake. We all do it from time to time (make mistakes, that is).

I asked a question for him to clarify his bullshit. How is that a mistake? Consider

The mistake is claiming that he said something that he clearly did not say. There's no need to do that, since he actually does say and do so many things that are wrong or dishonest. Why accuse him of stuff that he didn't do? That just muddies the waters and gives him ammunition. Then he'll digress for 10 pages on the one mistake you made, instead of addressing the real issues (not that he ever addresses those anyway).

I don't want to fight with you. We're on the same side. But when arguing with the likes of Tomasia, we should keep the high ground. Strawmen and false accusations don't help our case.
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