Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
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19-07-2016, 06:58 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(19-07-2016 06:47 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(19-07-2016 06:10 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  There's more than enough evidence to render the position that Jesus existed as far more likely than any alternative in which he didn't.

Show me.

The variety of NT writings, the first hand account of individuals meeting his brother and disciples, the references in Josephus, including the death of his brother, the reference in Tacitus, etc.... all which would render explanations involving a non-historical Jesus as absurdities.

It's why our dishonest atheists, tend to steer away from arguing for a non-existing Jesus, and only find themselves comfortable arguing for a sort of lame agnosticism.

It's why the spineless folks here, while causally attempting to support arguments used by a-historicist, when pressed find themselves confessing that Jesus existed as well. And when pushed, will squeal that they are not mythicists themselves.

It's all rather pathetic.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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19-07-2016, 07:03 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(19-07-2016 06:58 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  It's all rather pathetic.

Are you talking about this thread? Then yes. And tedious. And tiresome.

#sigh
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19-07-2016, 07:04 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(19-07-2016 06:34 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  The dispute was over what constituted a town and not whether or not the area was inhabited.

No, there's no debate as to what constitutes as a town, in the first century greek. An inhabited region of a few hundred people would cut it. The scale of Nazareth is entirely irrelevant, and in the Gospels themselves is rendered as a insignificant region at the time.

But we could ignore the semantic here all together, an inhabited region at time called Nazareth, is all we need.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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19-07-2016, 07:05 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(19-07-2016 03:39 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(19-07-2016 08:26 AM)GoingUp Wrote:  I do not admit to subscribing to your extremist views, if that is what you are hoping to see.

It's built on more than Paul's concept of Jesus. Although we refer to them as the Synoptics, the reality is that Luke is very different from Mark and Matthew. Where Mark and Matthew focus on Jesus, Luke extends into Acts, and what it actually does is give us a history of the superstitious beliefs of the Church, as opposed to focusing so much on Jesus.


He didn't. He was just a very good teacher from the Nazarene school of thought, one who commanded attention via the authority demonstrated through his knowledge.

I do not admit to subscribing to your extremist views, if that is what you are hoping to see. N

I've no idea what you mean, and neither do the readers. Another ad hominem. Please be specific, and try to stick to the topic.

What part of "your extremist views" wasn't specific enough for you?

Quote: If the original teachings of Jesus died with James, which is what you claimed, then the "teachings" of Christianity, as we know it today, are fraudulent, as most claim to be based on a "Jesus." The "Jesus" we think we know is a comic book man. Your comments please.

They did die with James, as far as what the whole story regarding those teachings involved. And we will never know what what said and taught in its entirety, because I feel that James was probably the last true master of the Nazarenes.

However, that doesn't mean that some of those teachings failed to come down to us. Things are not as black and white as you seem to have a propensity to view them.

The Christianity we have today has a mixture of the teachings of the Nazarenes, the doctrine of Paul the apostle, sprinkled with Orthodox and Hellenistic Judaism, flavored with Mithra-ism, Gnosticism. and likely another half dozen myths and legends thrown in the pot to create a stew fit for any gullible fool.

The gospel records likely do have many of the original teachings of Jesus, but the narrators included the implausible to embellish this man to make him more attractive to a culture that was already predisposed to beliefs in gods that defied normal human capabilities; the Greco-|Romans.

The thing is, Mark, is that Christianity probably has some small degree of truth to it in regards to some of the things Jesus said. It's not as black and while as it being fraudulent or true, because it doesn't even matter. What matters here is answering questions the best we can according to the evidence, and hoping that we approximate the truth according to the evidence, and according to what is reasonable, in the interests of history, and only history.

If you want to look at things through the a single lens of what is fraudulent, then no one can stop you. But the truth is that you are totally missing the bigger picture that can only be seen with both eyes wide open, seeing only what is there, with no bias to taint the portrait.
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19-07-2016, 07:07 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(19-07-2016 06:58 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(19-07-2016 06:47 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Show me.

The variety of NT writings, the first hand account of individuals meeting his brother and disciples, the references in Josephus, including the death of his brother, the reference in Tacitus, etc.... all which would render explanations involving a non-historical Jesus as absurdities.

Wrong. There exist no first hand accounts.

The passage in Josephus is a known forgery. Has been since Voltaire was alive!

There is no reference to a Jesus in Tacitus.

Quote:It's why our dishonest atheists, tend to steer away from arguing for a non-existing Jesus, and only find themselves comfortable arguing for a sort of lame agnosticism.

Asking for evidence you cannot supply is dishonest. Methinks the shoe is on the wrong foot here Tomasia. You are expecting us to fall for non evidence and hearsay. Stuff that won't stand up in a court of law.

As I said. Show me the evidence.

Quote:It's why the spineless folks here, while causally attempting to support arguments used by a-historicist, when pressed find themselves confessing that Jesus existed as well. And when pushed, will squeal that they are not mythicists themselves.

It's all rather pathetic.

Indeed. It is all rather pathetic. You dare call me spineless, a man with 28 full contact wins, who worked as a child hunting in the bush, and lived in very dangerous situations? All before I was 16? Currently fighting a deadly cancer?

How dare you!

It is YOU who has failed to provide evidence.

You have some? Show us. You'll be instantly famous.

Otherwise, FUCK OFF!

You have really pissed me off you uneducated moron!

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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19-07-2016, 07:17 PM (This post was last modified: 19-07-2016 07:21 PM by Tomasia.)
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(19-07-2016 07:07 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Wrong. There exist no first hand accounts.

No Paul wrote a first hand account, of meeting Jesus' brother and disciples,.

Quote:The passage in Josephus is a known forgery. Has been since Voltaire was alive!

That's not the only passage in Josephus.

The passage regarding James' death, that indicates he was the brother of Jesus is regarded as authentic.

Quote:There is to reference to a Jesus in Tacitus.

No, Tacitus writes of Christ being crucified at the hands of pilate, of the movement he inspired called christianity, and of the mischievous superstitions that arose after his death.


Quote:[

Indeed. It is all rather pathetic. You dare call me spineless, a man with 28 full contact wins, who worked as a child hunting in the bush, and lived in very dangerous situations? All before I was 16? Currently fighting a deadly cancer?

No, I don't accuse you of anything, and see your own contributions on the topic as often wandering, and plagued with confusions, that I just excuse as the result of the meds, making it difficult for you to keep up. Not too long ago we went over you confusing the Testimonium passage and the James passage, but short term memory apparently leads you to keep forgetting that.

If it wasn't for your health there might be something to say about this, but as the result of your health leaves me absent of any particular criticism of you personally.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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19-07-2016, 07:24 PM (This post was last modified: 19-07-2016 07:31 PM by OrdoSkeptica.)
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus

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19-07-2016, 07:25 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(19-07-2016 07:17 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(19-07-2016 07:07 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Wrong. There exist no first hand accounts.

No Paul wrote a first hand account, of meeting Jesus' brother and disciples,.

Quote:The passage in Josephus is a known forgery. Has been since Voltaire was alive!

That's not the only passage in Josephus.

The passage regarding James' death, that indicates he was the brother of Jesus is regarded as authentic.

Quote:There is to reference to a Jesus in Tacitus.

No, Tacitus writes of Christ being crucified at the hands of pilate, of the movement he inspired called christianity, and of the mischievous superstitions that arose after his death.


Quote:[

Indeed. It is all rather pathetic. You dare call me spineless, a man with 28 full contact wins, who worked as a child hunting in the bush, and lived in very dangerous situations? All before I was 16? Currently fighting a deadly cancer?

No, I don't accuse you of anything, and see your own contributions on the topic as often wandering, and plagued with confusions, that I just excuse as the result of the meds, making it difficult for you to keep up. Not too long ago we went over you confusing the Testimonium passage and the James passage, but short term memory apparently leads you to keep forgetting that.

If it wasn't for your health there might be something to say about this, but as the result of your health leaves me absent of any particular criticism of you personally.

Just show me the evidence. And Paul does not count as he never met Jesus.

Do you have some?

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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19-07-2016, 07:27 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(19-07-2016 07:07 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(19-07-2016 06:58 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  The variety of NT writings, the first hand account of individuals meeting his brother and disciples, the references in Josephus, including the death of his brother, the reference in Tacitus, etc.... all which would render explanations involving a non-historical Jesus as absurdities.

Wrong. There exist no first hand accounts.

Paul. Contemporary.

Quote:The passage in Josephus is a known forgery. Has been since Voltaire was alive!

If it's a known forgery, how then is there no evidence to demonstrate it?

Quote:There is no reference to a Jesus in Tacitus.

Christus is Jesus. Full stop.

Quote:
Quote:It's why our dishonest atheists, tend to steer away from arguing for a non-existing Jesus, and only find themselves comfortable arguing for a sort of lame agnosticism.

Asking for evidence you cannot supply is dishonest. Methinks the shoe is on the wrong foot here Tomasia. You are expecting us to fall for non evidence and hearsay. Stuff that won't stand up in a court of law.

What you claim as not being evidence is proclaimed as being evidence by virtually every expert relevant in the field.

Your unqualified opinion doesn't matter. No offense.

Quote:As I said. Show me the evidence.

We have, but you are denying it exists from the position of someone who doesn't know what the evidence is and how it is evidence, according to all the experts.
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19-07-2016, 07:29 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(19-07-2016 07:25 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Just show me the evidence. And Paul does not count as he never met Jesus.

He counts, and it doesn't matter if he never met Jesus or not.
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