Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
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20-07-2016, 11:54 AM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
It's a lack of evidence, belief is irrelevant.

In case your forgot there is little first-century evidence archaeologically ( bullshit xtian writers notwithstanding ) and no textual references to it at all. As noted, "Nazareth" is the town that theology built".

Origen, living in nearby Caesarea, gave so little of a fuck about any "Nazareth" that even in the third century he never went there.

Oh, and your pal "paul" never heard of it.

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20-07-2016, 12:01 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
Roman historians didn't write histories as we think of them. They told narratives. The concept of a history the way we think of it was not a thing to them. "Histories" we're meant to sell a narrative. Facts are irrelevant. Facts might make up the basis of Roman histories, but they weren't all that was in there.

And then there's the texts about other Jewish figures. Look at what was written for John the Baptist. That was far more substantial from an author with no prerogative to push the existence of this person. We have nothing of the sort for Jesus.

And yes, there are others who were called Christos. Like Julius Caesar. I can find the passage, but it will take me some time because 1) it's in print with a good deal of my notes which may or may not be legible and 2) it's in Latin and my notes on the translation may be lost.
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20-07-2016, 12:11 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(20-07-2016 11:40 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(20-07-2016 11:32 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  And who exactly considers or calls such places "towns"? There are many farms, plantations, houses, etc. that have names attached to them. Doesn't make them towns. The Nazareth that Jesus is said to have lived in is described as a town, with multiple families, a synagogue, etc. This is not at all the same thing as a farm.

Let me also repeat that I am not a mythicist, and I am not claiming that Jesus didn't exist or that Nazareth didn't exist. I think both probably did. My problem is with Tomasia's flimsy evidence. Nothing he has provided proves that Nazareth existed circa 4 BC. I neither know nor care whether or not it did. But he is not making much of a case for his claim.


Proof and prove are your terms not mine.

If the evidence is compelling enough to indicate it more likely existed than not, to believe that it did exists at the time. That's the extent of my argument.

I'm not here arguing for any sort of absolutely certainty, in which terms like prove and proof might better appropriated for. That's your game not mine.

And by your concession that the town of Nazareth probably did exist at the time, it goes with out saying that you don't imagine as your were suggestive of earlier, that it was occupied by a single farm. Because as you said earlier a single farm doesn't make a town.

Please stop telling me what I think and believe, and why, and what "my game" is. It makes you sound like an asshole.
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20-07-2016, 12:17 PM (This post was last modified: 20-07-2016 12:23 PM by Tomasia.)
Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(20-07-2016 12:11 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(20-07-2016 11:40 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Proof and prove are your terms not mine.

If the evidence is compelling enough to indicate it more likely existed than not, to believe that it did exists at the time. That's the extent of my argument.

I'm not here arguing for any sort of absolutely certainty, in which terms like prove and proof might better appropriated for. That's your game not mine.

And by your concession that the town of Nazareth probably did exist at the time, it goes with out saying that you don't imagine as your were suggestive of earlier, that it was occupied by a single farm. Because as you said earlier a single farm doesn't make a town.

Please stop telling me what I think and believe, and why, and what "my game" is. It makes you sound like an asshole.


If an asshole means calling people out, holding them accountable for their suggestions, and shitty arguments. Than yes I'm an asshole

It's not personal.


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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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20-07-2016, 12:29 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(20-07-2016 12:17 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(20-07-2016 12:11 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Please stop telling me what I think and believe, and why, and what "my game" is. It makes you sound like an asshole.


If an asshole means calling people out, holding them accountable for their suggestions, and shitty arguments. Than yes I'm an asshole.

It's not personal.


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You should work on your reading comprehension. I'm not talking about arguments. I'm talking about you presuming to tell me what I think and believe, and why, and what "my game" is. That most assuredly does make you an asshole. Present your arguments, and refute mine if you can. But stop presuming to read my mind.

I'm done conversing with you anyway. Talk about shitty arguments -- all you can do is repeat the same ones over and over. They're not convincing anyone. And I'm not wasting any more of my time on them.
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20-07-2016, 12:32 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(20-07-2016 11:32 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(20-07-2016 11:19 AM)GoingUp Wrote:  You know this how?

I know a place we call "7 Mile House" and it only had 1 house, 7 miles from a small city. In fact I know of several places similar to that.

And who exactly considers or calls such places "towns"? There are many farms, plantations, houses, etc. that have names attached to them. Doesn't make them towns. The Nazareth that Jesus is said to have lived in is described as a town, with multiple families, a synagogue, etc. This is not at all the same thing as a farm.

Let me also repeat that I am not a mythicist, and I am not claiming that Jesus didn't exist or that Nazareth didn't exist. I think both probably did. My problem is with Tomasia's flimsy evidence. Nothing he has provided proves that Nazareth existed circa 4 BC. I neither know nor care whether or not it did. But he is not making much of a case for his claim.

And you somehow think that what constitutes a town/village/community in our culture in our modern times can be anachronistically imposed upon the ancient past to a completely different culture of people who would have a completely different understanding of things than we do today?

Can you provide one example of anyone in ancient history who defines what constitutes a town so that we can see if your modern concept actually has any merit whatsoever?

No, you cannot find one, because the standards we have today were not shared by those in the ancient past.

You are committing the Historian's Fallacy, which is understandable, considering you are by no means a historian.
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20-07-2016, 12:36 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(20-07-2016 10:58 AM)GoingUp Wrote:  Again, no one else was ever entitled as Christ other than Jesus.

Totally false. "Christ" is the Greek translation of the Hebrew "Anointed One", (messiah).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Mes...st_century

There were many. If you "haven't noted one" you know nothing about Hebrew culture of the time.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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20-07-2016, 12:40 PM
Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(20-07-2016 12:29 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(20-07-2016 12:17 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  If an asshole means calling people out, holding them accountable for their suggestions, and shitty arguments. Than yes I'm an asshole.

It's not personal.


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You should work on your reading comprehension. I'm not talking about arguments. I'm talking about you presuming to tell me what I think and believe, and why, and what "my game" is. That most assuredly does make you an asshole. Present your arguments, and refute mine if you can. But stop presuming to read my mind.

I'm done conversing with you anyway. Talk about shitty arguments -- all you can do is repeat the same ones over and over. They're not convincing anyone. And I'm not wasting any more of my time on them.


If I presumed what you think and believe it's based entirely on the suggestion you raised, claims you made, on your numerous post on the topic.

If I'm mistaken in those presumptions you're more than welcome to correct them. As I said it's nothing personal.

You spent several post arguing against the evidence that Nazareth existed, only to later concede that you believed it existed the whole time.

You claim the evidence is unconvincing, while also claiming you accept that it existed. If your acceptance isn't based on the said evidence you've been disputing than I don't know what it's based on.








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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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20-07-2016, 12:44 PM
RE: Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(20-07-2016 12:36 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(20-07-2016 10:58 AM)GoingUp Wrote:  Again, no one else was ever entitled as Christ other than Jesus.

Totally false. "Christ" is the Greek translation of the Hebrew "Anointed One", (messiah).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Mes...st_century

There were many. If you "haven't noted one" you know nothing about Hebrew culture of the time.

Can you please provide for me one written ancient reference to someone other than Jesus who was entitled, for example, "John the Christ," or "Simon called Christ?"

Go ahead. Let's see it.

Good luck with this and ... we are done here.

Big Grin
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20-07-2016, 12:48 PM
Contemporary Accounts of Jesus
(20-07-2016 12:44 PM)GoingUp Wrote:  
(20-07-2016 12:36 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Totally false. "Christ" is the Greek translation of the Hebrew "Anointed One", (messiah).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Mes...st_century

There were many. If you "haven't noted one" you know nothing about Hebrew culture of the time.

Can you please provide for me one written ancient reference to someone other than Jesus who was entitled, for example, "John the Christ," or "Simon called Christ?"

Go ahead. Let's see it.

Good luck with this and ... we are done here.

Big Grin

Don't hold your breath. This would require them to admit there are no such references other than in regards to Jesus. And they would rather eat crows than do that


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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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